Anybody ever rebuild the ZF 5 speed? (s5-42)

[Blue Rebel]

Hey guys, heres my situation. Im pretty mechanically inclined, and was wondering just how difficult it would be to rebuild the manual transmission out of my 89 F250. I know its not a top loader like the borg warner trans were, and thats where my limited trans experiance has been. What are these end loader transmissions like, and how hard is it to rebuild one? Or would I just be better off and farther ahead to buy an already rebuilt one and use mine for a core? Thanks for any opinions!

[Lazy K]

Go to motivegear.com and download their transmission catalog and have a look at the exploded diagram of a ZF5. See what you think.

[EPNCSU2006]

I don't see him post here much anymore, but frederic had a pretty decent write-up about rebuilding a ZF posted somewhere on here. See what you can turn up in a search.

[archangel]

I rebuilt one when I worked at the dealership.

Just one.

There are a lot of specialized tools needed to pull it apart and it's pressed back together.

And I would not do it without the repair manual.

It was not as bad as doing an E4OD the first time though.

[Alvin in AZ]

I'm in the process right now and it's a piece of cake. :)

"it's easy when you know how" -cowboy buddy that's accomplished much! :)

Talked to "-the- ZF guy in Tucson" just today about the expensive tools
needed to take the suckers apart. All those special pullers etc, right? :/

"slam it down on a concrete floor :)"

LOL :)
Works like a champ!
LOL :)

But I don't have any concrete handy so I used a hunk of steel from the
scrap yard...
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zf3.jpg

Pulling the bearings was easy once I found those two old leaf springs...
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zf2.jpg

Getting it apart was easy as anything. :)
But uhhh... can someone tell me how to put it back together... ?
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zf1.jpg

3rd was "grinding" and found zero clearance on that syncro and ~.012"
clearance on the rest of 'em.

BTW, how you like my pink homemade T57L-500-B tool?

Alvin in AZ
ps- No women 'round here to tell me I can't overhaul my ZF in the livin'room!
pps- Waiting on OEM synchro rings, the "kit" I bought has no-name's in it. :/
ppps- If a dumb$%^ from Arizona can rebuild one themselves... you can too.

[archangel]

Originally Posted by Alvin in AZ

I'm in the process right now and it's a piece of cake.

"it's easy when you know how" -cowboy buddy that's accomplished much!

Talked to "-the- ZF guy in Tucson" just today about the expensive tools
needed to take the suckers apart. All those special pullers etc, right? :/

"slam it down on a concrete floor "

LOL
Works like a champ!
LOL

And when the wife sees that chunk taken out of the concrete floor, she will lock up her purse and you will never see those balls again!
Not to mention that the impact could dent the spot where it hits.

Originally Posted by Alvin in AZ

But I don't have any concrete handy so I used a hunk of steel from the
scrap yard...
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zf3.jpg

Ah, balls are not in danger.

I use a 24" long section of rail road rial for my anvil.
I also have a couple of 18" pieces of rail and a square chunk about 6" X 10" X 12" in the garage I'm not using.

Originally Posted by Alvin in AZ

Pulling the bearings was easy once I found those two old leaf springs...
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zf2.jpg

Now that's a perfect example of my budgeted resources!

Originally Posted by Alvin in AZ

Getting it apart was easy as anything.
But uhhh... can someone tell me how to put it back together... ?
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zf1.jpg

That is where the factory manual comes in handy!
I also invested in (last time I had money coming in) at Harbor Freight for a stand up press to squeeze it all back together again.

Originally Posted by Alvin in AZ

3rd was "grinding" and found zero clearance on that syncro and ~.012"
clearance on the rest of 'em.

That might have been the issue!

Originally Posted by Alvin in AZ

BTW, how you like my pink homemade T57L-500-B tool?

PINK!!!!!
YOU AINT A TURNIN SWEET ON US NOW ARE YOU?????

Originally Posted by Alvin in AZ

Alvin in AZ
ps- No women 'round here to tell me I can't overhaul my ZF in the livin'room!
pps- Waiting on OEM synchro rings, the "kit" I bought has no-name's in it. :/
ppps- If a dumb$%^ from Arizona can rebuild one themselves... you can too.

NO WOMEN AROUND THERE!????

Balls elevated beyond Brass and up to teflon status!!!!!!!

[Alvin in AZ]

archangel wrote:
> And when the wife sees that chunk taken out of the concrete floor...

Yeah. :)
In this case the expert was using the floor of his shop/business. :)
The trick is to slam it as straight-down as you can.
Better for the shaft's end and better for pulling the synchro hubs.

> I use a 24" long section of rail road rial for my anvil.

Same here and a few other sizes too. :)
At work I used to collect all the nice little pieces of rail I could get my
hands on and give them away just as fast. :)

I ended up with the oddballs, a couple were hunks cut off during a broken
rail repair. I found those broken rails using a volt meter and almost every
broken rail I had was found at night.

warm days + cold nights = broken rail

>...and a square chunk about 6" X 10" X 12"...

That's about the same weight as I ended up using.

The first synchro hub was pulled in the house on a 4"x 10"x 2foot hunk of
wood. It worked, but not that good and for sure not what it takes for the
other two synchro hubs.

The ends of the main shaft are beveled like the head of a new cold chisel.
And since it's stronger steel than the head of a cold chisel, it tales the
punishment no sweat! LOL :)

(cold chisel top = "1070 to 1080 pearlite" ...just like railroad rail :)
Pearlite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The main shaft is at least medium-carbon low-alloy steel.

>Now that's a perfect example of my budgeted resources!

Cool thanks. :)
The front seal installation tool looks just like a faucet knob! LOL :)

The silly thing is driven-in from the -inside- so the tool needed to fit inside
the seal. That was the first thing I found that fit perfectly. :)

>That is where the factory manual comes in handy!

My only manual is a '91 Ford Truck Shop Manual and it's plenty, IMO. :)
ZF made one but copies are big bucks and hard to find both. :/
No real need IMO but it'd be a fun read. :)
(you can have my share of "made up story" books;)

>I also invested in (last time I had money coming in) at Harbor Freight for
>a stand up press to squeeze it all back together again.

I should do that or at least build one. The one I have now looks just like
the underneath side of a double-wide trailer. ;)

Alvin in AZ
ps- Waited the Ex out, until she found someone else to torment the hell
out of! She left! Yeee Haaaw! :) Left the kids behind too. LOL :)

[Alvin in AZ]

Why does the Ford Shop Manual keep making a big deal about not using
silicone sealer on any of the parts on the ZF?

I bought some Loctite 518 (E2AZ-19562-B / ESE-M4G234-A2) for the
case halves.

Is there a problem with the old acidic RTV?

What's it going to hurt to use Ultra-Black on the PTO covers and the shift
boot plate?

Alvin in AZ

[Alvin in AZ]

More pics and more of my long winded usual BS...

Bearing press? :/
We dohn need no steekeen press when we gottuh 8 poun' single jack! :)
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zf4.jpg
Man I'll tell you what, that hammer has worked out real nice.
It'll cut off frame rivets like it means it. ;)

Check out the two old Ford9inch axle-retainers being used for spacers.
Took the picture with the flash just to show those off. LOL :)
(shoulda used a flashlight)

The cross-pin is from a washing machine.

15/16" wood bit for the hole in the block of wood and works for either end.
I don't know about you, but my back can handle working on the floor way
better than standing or sitting at a work bench. YMMV on that. :)

(4x10 block of wood)

--------------------

I see part numbers for all sorts of stuff I could "use" but can't find a seller.
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zf5.jpg
Like the rubber plug for the bottom.

My T18 doesn't have huge gaping holes all over the bell housing and does
fine out here where it's dry, so figured this dangged ZF didn't neither.
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zf6.jpg
That's a 3/4" rubber hose, WD-40ed up and hammered into place then cut
off from the inside with my pocket knife.

I'm going to drill a hole in the steel spacer plate on the engine or bottom
of the bell housing or something. All those holes and no drain at the very
lowest spot! :(

Still haven't worked out what I'm going to do with the slave cylinder holes.

-------------------------

Could use a seller of simple parts like springs. Ford has a suggestion for
upgraded "shift rail detent springs" and gives a part number but this old
"dent-sider" don't buy stuff from the dangged "obsolete-ers" anymore,
unless I absolutely have to! :/

Upgraded detent springs... E8TZ-7E218-A
10mm case plugs for the dentents... E7TZ-7L013-A

With shipping and all, from "Ford" the "inner lever boot" cost almost $30
and it's just the rubber part even tho their pictures show the metal part
attached. F4TZ-7277-A

There's a part left out of most ZF S5-42 exploded diagrams but Ford's
diagrams have it but they had to add a number for it between 38 and 39
so called it "38A". :)

Part number "7046" is all the farther I got with it. :/
"oil baffle"
"front bearing oil scoop"
"input shaft oil dam"
Are the names for it I could find.

One came in the $330 bearing and synchro ring kit.

---------------------

Here's my "fix" for the springs...
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zfS.jpg
Notice that one spring is turned so you can see the worn-spot on it?
All three springs from a certain synchronizer hub were like that.
(Reverse and 5th?)
Anyway they felt wimpy and all the synchro springs were slightly under
minimum length so I used hunks of spring from my Brownell's spring pack.
Just lucked out Brownell's springs have the opposite spiral huh? :)

Made "inserts" for all nine synchro springs, the three detent springs and
the reverse lockout spring too. That last one was just for the heck of it.

-------------------------

Not sure, but figure it to be, one problem with slamming the gears apart
was a damaged snap ring. 57mmx 2mm or 2+1/4" might work.

Front seal is a 35mm x50mm x8
Rear seal is a 50mm x65mm x8

Alvin in AZ

[archangel]

Originally Posted by Alvin in AZ

BTW, how you like my pink homemade T57L-500-B tool?

OK, it took me 2 minutes of searching before I found out what a T57L-500-B tool was, and I don't see a pink one in any of the pictures.

I have a large gray colored custom transmission holder for rebuilding E4OD's and it uses the two factory mounting detents on the left side and reaching over the top of the trans to reach the one on the right side.

I should get some pictures.

[Alvin in AZ]

Done...
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zfF.jpg

Alvin in AZ

[archangel]

Originally Posted by Alvin in AZ

Done...
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zfF.jpg

Alvin in AZ

I see 2 propane torches on a speaker, a ZF trans, an old rim, a can of break clean and some hand tools but no Pink transmission clamp.

[Alvin in AZ]

Originally Posted by archangel

I see... an old {pink VW} rim {holding} a ZF trans...

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zf1.jpg
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/zfF.jpg

The two torches were for the 3rd gear bearing race.
It clinked when I dropped it on and the main shaft hadn't been in the freezer. ;)

Alvin in AZ

[archangel]

That old "pink" VW rim looks like it needs a new paint job.

And, from my point of view, it did look like it was just sitting on the rim, not being held by it.

I guess I was expecting to see something that would look like it could be mounted to a work bench and then, in some way hold the trans.

I MUST save some of these photos to show to the wife next time she complains about me working on something small in the house just to let her know how lucky she is that I don't rebuild transmissions on the living room floor!

[Alvin in AZ]

Living room is still a friggin mess but this makes that ok... ;)
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/hoist7m.jpg

Alvin in AZ