I have been having an issue with my '98 4cyl clutch and or pedal that past week or so. Ive had it for about 3 months now and the pedal was always modestly stiff and had no slop/play in it. The clutch would engage and I could put it in gear and shift gears by pressing the pedal in maybe 2 inches, still leaving a good 4-6" of pedal travel to work with. Also, just like any manual I have ever owned if driven at higher RPMs such as on the freeway you could feel the pedal "tighten" up a bit, but not in a bad way or anything. Starting a week ago I started it up after a shift at work and it seemed to have a spongy or soft feel to it for a few inches and I would have to press it in a bit more (2-4" of travel to work with) in order to get it in gear/shift as well. I was still able to drive it normally, the pedal just felt really soft and starting out in first gear became a bit more of an on/off thing.
Fast forward to this afternoon as I was getting on freeway I made a 4-5 shift at about 55mph and when I went to downshift getting off the freeway I noticed there was practically no firmness left in the pedal. Now the pedal feels soft and spongy all but the last maybe 1" or so (1" is all I have to work with) before the pedal hits the floor. Also after driving at higher RPMs it no longer gets that tight feeling in the pedal, its just soft and mushy the whole time. It still goes into gear (although not as easily since there is barely any pedal left) and shifts ok but Im afraid to drive it anymore in case something finally gives out the next time I drive it and leaves me stranded. The clutch itself is not slipping and there are no visual leaks anywhere. I drove it through all the gears and even in 5th it would accelerate fine and I have never smelled the clutch burning at all. The master cylinder is still right below the max line and I took the rubber plug out of the tranny and there is no fluid inside the bellhousing/transmission that I could feel, just the usual dirt and grime. Since these clutches are self adjusting to my knowlege, I honestly have no idea what it could be...this is the first hydraulic clutch vehicle I have owned, all others have been cable/fork operated. Is there anything I can do to test and find out what is wrong without having to first drop the transmission?? Thanks in advance for any help you guys/gals can offer.
Its sounds like you have air in the line and the master Cylinder. 1st you need to check your fluid level for your clutch reservoir. if its ok then you need to take out your clutch master cylinder and bench bleed it.
Its sounds like you have air in the line and the master Cylinder. 1st you need to check your fluid level for your clutch reservoir. if its ok then you need to take out your clutch master cylinder and bench bleed it.
After searching on here it seems air in the lines is a common problem and is mentioned quite a bit. My only concern is how did the air get into the line(s)/master cylinder if it was fine up until a week ago and now all of a sudden it has developed this problem? The fluid level is fine in the master cylinder (as I said in the original post it is right below the MAX line), so there must be a hole or something in one of the lines that is allowing air to get in, I cant understand how air would just somehow suddenly get into the line. From what I have read so far it seems that people develop a spongy pedal so they bleed the system, and then it is fine for a day or two before the pedal gets spongy again because the air is somehow getting back into the lines.
Anywho, where do I check the reservoir level? When you say I might need to take out the clutch master cylinder to bench bleed it, what part do you mean? I thought there was only 1 master cylinder in the vehicle and it runs to the brakes, and also to the slave cylinder inside the bellhousing/transmission that actuates the clutch? Are you saying there is a seperate master cylinder that is dedicated to the clutch? I appreciate the help with these basic questions...as I said earlier I am not familiar with hydraulic clutch systems. I need to purchase a Haynes or Chiltons book but the nearest parts store is 15 miles away and I am afraid I might lose all control of the clutch on the way there or back and need to work in 3 hours so I cant take the chance. Also which guide do you guys recommend, the Haynes or Chiltons?
The reservoir is located on the drivers side fender or the firewall. Will have a small screw on lid. Check to see if the fluid level is good. If its not then you may have a leaking slave cylinder which requires the transmission to come out.
The reservoir is located on the drivers side fender or the firewall. Will have a small screw on lid. Check to see if the fluid level is good. If its not then you may have a leaking slave cylinder which requires the transmission to come out.
Thank you much for the picture...I found it no problem and the thing is bone dry
So since it is dry I will have to bleed it since there is now air in the system...but seeing as though I can find no leak, any ideas on where the fluid went? As stated in the original post I followed the line that goes to the slave cylinder and there is no fluid or sign of leak in the line and I pulled out the rubber plug and felt around inside and there was no fluid, only dirt and crud. Do you by chance have a link on how to efficiently and correctly bleed the system? I thank you for your help bud, hopefully all will be well again after taking care of this.
FWIW the previous owner said the clutch was replaced at ~110k miles (it now has 130k mile) but I honestly dont believe a word that guy said. The guy was a total tard and there were no service receipts or documentation of any work ever done to the truck. Is it possible for the stock clutch to last 130k miles or is it safe to say it has been replaced before? He was a 40ish year old guy who used it as his work truck and to occasionally tow a jet ski to the nearby lake, and I have just used it to put around town to and from work for the last 3k miles that I have owned it. Would you think it is the stocker or could it have been replaced, and is there anyway for me to tell by looking inside with the rubber plug taken out? You sir kick ass and I appreciate your help
you really need to take it out of the truck to bleed it right. Might also be a good time to change the Clutch Master Cylinder. here's what i have
BENCH BLEED
The compact vehicles are more difficult to bleed because the downward angle of the master cylinder makes it difficult for air to escape up into the reservoir. Therefore, if the master cylinder is removed from the vehicle and bled while held in a vertical orientation (a bench bleed) air can escape much more efficiently.
1. Remove master cylinder, line and reservoir from vehicle and assemble with replacement parts required based on initial concern.
2. Hold the master cylinder vertically with the reservoir feed hose in the highest position on the body,
3. Fill the reservoir and extend above the master cylinder and assure the quick connect on the clutch line is below the master cylinder. (Lightly clamp reservoir in a vice).
4. Using a small screwdriver, depress the internal mechanism of the male quick connect coupling to open the valve,
5. Stroke and hold master cylinder pushrod.
6. Close quick connect valve.
7. Release master cylinder pushrod.
8. Fill reservoir.
Repeat Steps 4 through 8 four more times.
9. With the master cylinder still being held with the outlet tube and reservoir feed tube ends high, quick connect closed and the reservoir full, proceed as follows:
10. Push the pushrod into the body several times quickly to expel any remaining air.
If it is a remote reservoir, pinch the supply hose with your fingers two or three times to help move air into reservoir.
When the movement of the pushrod is .160" (4mm) or less when stroked in Step 10, reinstall the master cylinder into the vehicle and couple it to the slave cylinder.
ON VEHICLE BLEED PROCEDURE, CONCENTRIC SLAVE CYLINDER
Under normal conditions, disconnecting the clutch coupling will not introduce air into the system. However, if there appears to be air in the system (spongy pedal or insufficient bearing travel), the system must be bled. The following procedure is used with the hydraulic system installed on the vehicle.
1. Disconnect the coupling at the transmission with a coupling disconnect tool (T88T70522A) or equivalent by sliding the white plastic sleeve toward the slave cylinder while applying a slight tug on the clutch tube.
2. Clean dirt and grease from around the reservoir cap.
3. Remove cap and diaphragm and fill reservoir to the step with Heavy Duty Brake Fluid (C6AZ-19542-AA or BA) (ESA-M6C25-A) or equivalent.
CAUTION: BRAKE FLUID MUST BE CERTIFIED TO DOT 3 SPECIFICATION.
4. By hand, apply 10-15 lbs. to clutch pedal.
If pedal is hard (.25-.50 "movement), skip to Step 9.
If pedal is spongy, proceed to the next step.
5. Using a small screwdriver....
Depress the internal mechanism of the male coupling to open the valve.
6. While continuing to hold the valve open, slowly depress the clutch pedal to the floor and hold.
7. Remove the screwdriver from the coupling, closing the valve.
8. Release the clutch pedal.
9. Refill the reservoir to level at step.
NOTE: THE RESERVOIR MUST BE KEPT FULL AT ALL TIMES TO ENSURE THAT THERE WILL BE NO ADDITIONAL INTRODUCTION OF AIR INTO THE SYSTEM.
Repeat Steps 4 through 7.
Install cap on reservoir.
Reconnect the coupling to the slave cylinder.
Check that the connection is secure by applying a slight tug to the clutch tube.
Stroke the clutch pedal as rapidly as possible for five to ten strokes.
Wait one to three minutes.
Repeat Steps 10 and 11 three more times.
Loosen the bleed screw which is located in the slave cylinder body next to the inlet connection.
Depress and hold the clutch pedal while tightening the bleed screw 3-5 N-m (2.2-3.7 lb-ft).
Refill the reservoir to level at step.
The hydraulic system should now be fully bled and should release the clutch. Check the clutch reserve per the instruction in the 1993 Service Manual, Section 08-00.
Yes, after getting a good light on things it seems the slave cylinder is leaking. The line from the master is dry, both the inlet and bleed lines on the slave are dry but there is fluid all over where the TOB is so it must be leaking from somewhere inside the cylinder itself. Since a new slave is less than $50 I am just going to get a new one and install it.
After spending some time looking things over I am still lost on removing the master cylinder to bench bleed it. Looking at the parts store image of it, it looks like a gasket with two holes for screws that mounts underneath the brake booster, is this where I take it off at? So you are supposed to have everything out of the vehicle to bleed, then install in the vehicle and finishe bleeding there?? What a pita for a $48 part
OK I am going to start dropping the transmission tomorrow and would like to have everything done in 1 day if possible. I found this great video on youtube outlining the bleeding process of the entire system.
Now the only trouble I am having is how to get the master cylinder off the vehicle. Ive looked up under the dash and see the plastic rod and the metal rod that is visible when you slide the electrical harness up. I am just not sure how to get the rod out or remove the master from the vehicle. I know there is a circlip/snap ring somewhere on the system, but Im having trouble figuring out what to do next. You guys have any tips on how to do this?
the rod will pop out from the brake pedal then you made have to pry the rod out of the master cylinder. The M/C should just twist alittle to aline with the square hole in the support bracket. The line that connects to the transmisson along the the M/S and the reservoir with hose all come out together. Just make sure you bleed both the slave and M/S before you install it
Im going to drain and drop the transmission first thing in the morning because that is the easy part and Im still not 100% certain how to get the master out. Ive taken a couple pics to clarify what Im asking so I can get a good grasp of what to do after getting the tranny out. Although it may not seem like it Im very good with working on my own vehicles, Im just not familiar with these hydraulic clutch setups so Id rather be safe than mess something up.
Does this clip need to come off? I tried prying it off with a flathead and got nowhere...actually broke it some but it still wont come off. If it does need to come off whats the best way to remove it?
When you say take the top part of the switch off to get it off the rod you mean the clear/white plastic thats on the backside of this, right?
Does the actual bracket need to be removed for the master to be removed or does it just twist and lock into place? I dont see anything holding it to the firewall on engine or cab side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglefixer
the rod will pop out from the brake pedal then you made have to pry the rod out of the master cylinder.
What does the brake pedal have to do with the clutch pedal and rod? You threw me off there...
When it comes time to bleed the system I am going to follow that video to a T. Basically get the master bled first then install and connect the line to the slave, gravity bleed it by running 1.5-2 reservoirs worth of fluid through with the bleed screw open on the slave and be done with it. Should be a great learning experience, wish me luck
the switch is 2 pieces. The piece on the opposite on the plug comes off. Then you disconnect the rod at the brake pedal then try to pull the rod out of the M/C. Then rotate the M/C counterclockwise on the bracket in your second pic
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. FordŽ is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.
'98 4cyl Clutch/Pedal Issue
