Newie with 6.0 shudder/injector problem

campersieg · #1 (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 12:51 PM

I recently bought a 2003 F-350 with the 6.0 diesel engine built in early 2003. My other truck is an 84 F-250 with the 302, so I am new to diesels and have learned a lot between driving it and reading the volumes of information on this great site. I read the Tech Tips and searched the forum on shudder and the injectors, but I still need to ask about the shudder and the fuel injectors.

The truck seems fine except when it is cruising around 55 mph and the rpm’s are between 1300 and 1800. This is when it shudders, even in tow/haul mode. If I let off the pedal or step on the pedal it goes away. I only see a little smoke when I start it. I took it to the dealer and was told that the #2 injector needs to be replaced.

I have read the tech tips and searched the forum for information on the injectors and this is what I understand.
There are multiple problems that result in the injectors going bad or seeming to be bad. So I should do the following:

Determine if the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) and the IDM (Injector Drive Module) have the latest software. There was a TSB about this and postings.
Check fuel pressure – 45 psi minimum
Change the oil using Motorcraft filters and CF-4 rated oil
Try some fuel injector additive in the fuel and some ProLong engine treatment in the oil
Check the EBP (Exhaust Back Pressure) sensor

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What I don’t understand is that if it is the fuel injector, wouldn’t the problem exist no matter what the speed/rpm? Please educate me some more on this.
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BISMIC
I would like to receive the two spreadsheets that you mentioned in your posting for 6.0 diesel newbies like myself. Thanks.

Toreador_Diesel · #2 (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 01:42 PM

When I thought my injectors were dying, I ran some Diesel Kleen (gray bottle, full dose) and 2 bottles of PROlong oil additive from Autozone after I changed my oil. My injectors got quieter and whatever issues I had went away and stayed away.

If it's not too cold where you're at, you could run a tankful of Biodiesel B100 and it should clean and lube the fuel system and injectors. You will have to change your fuel filters the next time you fill up though.

So change your oil, add some prolong, and see if it helps. It's better than spending an insane amount of money to have an injector replaced. After you do that I recommend a long drive on the freeway at 70.

cheezit · #3 (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 08:59 PM

well the engine uses a compensation strat. so most of the time you may not notice it but under accell or in certin parts of the power band it becomes more noticable.
most of the time it can be felt on tip in accell.

campersieg · #4 (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheezit

well the engine uses a compensation strat. so most of the time you may not notice it but under accell or in certin parts of the power band it becomes more noticable.
most of the time it can be felt on tip in accell.

When you say "tip in accell" do you mean a change in accellorator pedal? Is this corrected with an upgrade in the software that is mentioned in one of the TSB?

This probably has nothing to do with the shudder but tonight when I changed the oil I noticed metal flakes stuck magnetically to the oil pan bolt when I removed it. What should I be looking at now?

cheezit · #5 (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 10:20 PM

ok the term tip in = just lightly rolling on the gas.
I hate the question how much metal is normal when it comes to 6.0's.
If its just alittle bit it may be normal. you will also find some metal in filter housing also normal.
Its hard to advise on what is and is not normal without having it to look at. I will say this if it looks like a diff plug thats bad. If you have a little fuzz not an issue.

campersieg · #6 (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 10:57 PM

cheezit
Thanks for the input on the metal. I have not seen this with gas engines. Is this more common with diesel, especially the 6.0?

Toreador_Diesel
Thanks for the tip on the biodiesel.
Is soy diesel the same as biodiesel? Is it a good idea to run a tank of soydiesel as a matter of practice when getting ready to change the fuel filters? Is this a true statement that biodiesel cleans and lubricates better but gels faster in cold temps?

cheezit · #7 (**permalink**) 10-26-2009, 11:00 PM

i dont know about more common in other engines but its not unseen in the 6.0l.

I just put a pick of what one should NOT look like in my photo album just for you. this one came out of a 6.4 that had 2 oil changes in 2000 hours and it was a service unit.

69cj · #8 (**permalink**) 10-27-2009, 09:58 AM

Another tip since you are in Pa. and it's starting to get cold would be to use 5W-40 synthetic oil. Your inj. will thank you. And when adding Diesel Kleen use the white bottle in winter and grey in summer. White bottle has anti-gel in it.

campersieg · #9 (**permalink**) 10-27-2009, 12:53 PM

cheezit
Thanks for the picture. Mine looked a bit like that, maybe not quite as bad but still scary. I am not sure the oil was changed even in 7k miles. I have 137k on it now and am thinking that since the oil was quite dirty that I would consider changing it in another 3k to hopefully flush out some of the metal and maintain a cleaner oil in the engine. So with the unit that the bolt in the picture came out of what is your recommendation? Flush it, add some Prolong engine treatment and keep running it or does the oil pan need to be taken off and the bottom half inspected?

69cj
I think that when I change the oil I will try the synthetic oil. It seems that Rotella is a common one being used, do you recommend any particular one? It seems that there are different results for different people using synthetic but I am curious to experience the difference.

Back to the fuel injector issue, I haven't had a chance to take it to someone to have the software checked yet and I want to try the additives first but if the shudder doesn't clear up and it is a faulty injector and I continue running it will I cause more problems or will it just be annoying?

cheezit · #10 (**permalink**) 10-27-2009, 08:16 PM

that engine was replaced with a short block. the total lack of care wasted the cam and cam brgs. also that engine had more then 2500 hours with just over 20k on the odo.

Toreador_Diesel · #11 (**permalink**) 10-28-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by campersieg

Toreador_Diesel
Thanks for the tip on the biodiesel.
Is soy diesel the same as biodiesel? Is it a good idea to run a tank of soydiesel as a matter of practice when getting ready to change the fuel filters? Is this a true statement that biodiesel cleans and lubricates better but gels faster in cold temps?

Yes it is very true, I just looked at your location and it's not a good idea to run B100 when you live up in PA like JaySVX. It gets just a little too cold and you'll gel up before you can do your truck any good.

In the meantime, some Diesel Kleen (White bottle with the Anti-gel) and 2 bottles of Prolong in your oil should lube things up and have your truck back to it's normal self unless it something way more serious.

Btw, per 69cj's suggestion switching to 5w40 during the winter will definitely help with starts and general cold weather operation.