The seatbely buzzer and lights still work. Any chance I could have fiered the starter again already?
Anything is possible but I kind of doubt it.
But here's how to test some stuff...
With the ignition key OFF, turn your headlights on, they should shine brightly.
Battery voltage should read around 11-12 volts.
Turn the key to RUN, the battery voltage might drop a smidge and then return
to very close to where it was (assuming all electrical accessories are turned
off).
Turn the key to START... you should hear a fairly loud click in the starter
solenoid and the headlights should dim *a little bit* and the battery voltage
should drop to no less than about 10V IIRC.
When all is working correctly, the starter motor should also make some noise...
does it make a click/thud/thunk (louder than the solenoid) and then nothing?
Holding the key in START during that condition will likely heat up your battery
cables and/or the solenoid.
If you then hear a grinding noise, the starter motor isn't engaging the flywheel/
flex plate correctly.
If the headlights get WAY dim or shut off, that points to either the starter
motor drawing an excessive amount of current or bad primary cables or bad
connections or a bad battery.
If the solenoid doesn't click, that points to the ignition switch or wiring; jumper
to further diagnose.
EDIT: BTW Barty88 you should fill out the rest of your profile so people can
see where you live; it'd help me figure out how much more sunlight you have...
I had the starter tested tonight and it is fine, so I will put it BACK on tomorrow. There is no noise anywhere at all now, so I think it is in the wiring somewhere or the switch as you pointed out... I'll have to double check things tomorrow, but the starter is still good. I tried a different (new ) solenoid, and still nothing, so this most recent issue has to be between the key and the solenoid.
Jumpering it does work. I tried following the connection from the solenoid to the iginitio and its boud up in a wire harness bundle all thye way to under the dash. Everything at the fuse box looks ok, I cant find the ignition switch (I got one for $10 to replace and see if thats it.) I alsi traced the fuel line from the fuel tank and while I could be missing something it looks as if it goes straight to the carb. The only odd thing I found there was that at the end of the fuel line coming from the tank there is a screw type compression fitting, but a rubber hose had been attached and then cut off. Similarly at the car where the screw in fuel filter is there was a rubber hose attached and then cut off so it was not geting gas, so I put my in line fuel filter there, clear so I can see if it gets gas.
I pretty much figured it would, given what you've described. But it's good to
verify.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barty88
I tried following the connection from the solenoid to the iginitio and its boud up in a wire harness bundle all thye way to under the dash.
Yes. If this wiring harness hasn't already been jacked with, don't jack with it
(yet).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barty88
Everything at the fuse box looks ok, I cant find the ignition switch (I got one for $10 to replace and see if thats it.)
OK, here goes... The ignition switch is mounted on top of the steering column,
behind & below the gauges. There is a steel rod that actuates it from the key
tumbler, it's part of the same assembly that (un)locks the steering wheel.
But, it's pretty easy to get to... Remove any plastic trim from underneath,
where the column meets with the dash; you'll prolly have a small piece of
plastic that holds a rubber cushion that surrounds the lower steering column.
Prolly two sheet metal screws hold it on; take it off.
I also suggest removing the black, plastic shroud on the column, there should
be one screw underneath that holds it together. It's flexible plastic, lift it up &
off.
You should then see four bolts (or are they nuts? I forget...) on the bottom side
of the column holding on an aluminum bracket that sandwiches the column to
the dash. I think they're 9/16" bolts, might be 1/2", you need to remove those.
This will result in the column dropping a bit, revealing the ignition switch on
top. From here, it should be pretty obvious - unplug the electrical connector,
remove the two nuts (or are they bolts? I forget smth like 7/16" or
10MM or somethin' thereabouts) that hold it to the column, remove it from the
steel actuating rod, remove/unbolt any brackets holding the wiring in place,
etc.
Notice, that switch is adjustable in its position on the column, don't button
everything up without first ensuring it's mounted such that everything works as
desired; a common problem is the spring action of the ignition switch on the
key tumbler not returning the tumbler all the way to the RUN position from
START, this sometimes results in electrical accessories not working until the
tumbler is jiggled a bit. This is your opportunity to make sure everything is
adjusted correctly and works right.
You can let the steering wheel & column rest on your lap or on the seat, it
won't hurt anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barty88
I alsi traced the fuel line from the fuel tank and while I could be missing something it looks as if it goes straight to the carb
If you don't have dual tanks and/or EFI, this sounds good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barty88
The only odd thing I found there was that at the end of the fuel line coming from the tank there is a screw type compression fitting, but a rubber hose had been attached and then cut off.
A PO of my truck had done the same thing (if I'm understanding you correctly,
I'm talking about the connections at the fuel pump on the engine). If you're
referring to the tank connection from the sending unit to the fuel line, I'm not
familiar with any compression fittings there, but it shouldn't matter (at least
for now) so long as the rubber isn't rotted and nothing leaks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barty88
Similarly at the car where the screw in fuel filter is there was a rubber hose attached and then cut off so it was not geting gas, so I put my in line fuel filter there, clear so I can see if it gets gas.
I have one of those.
Something else you can do is measure the pressure & flow rate at the carb.
You probably don't have a fuel pressure gauge but you can eyeball it...
disconnect the fuel line from the carb and route it to a containment vessel -
small coffee can, plastic jug, whatever is handy and will work without spilling
and making a mess. (You might want to attach another length of rubber hose
so you can orient it away from any obstacles.) Jumper the solenoid or have
someone turn the key and check for fuel being pumped out, see if it seems like
it "should be enough" or not. The PSI of a mechanical pump is only something
like 4-7 lbs. (not real high) and I forget the delivery rate but you should get a
warm, fuzzy feeling that it looks good;dribbles are bad.
Ok, strike that... I started cleaning more conections (ground to firewall, re-did battery terminals and starter connection, etc.) , wire brush on the end of a cordless drill, dialectric grease.... and it started turning over again...
I posted two new pictures, one of the carb area where it looks like the fuel line comes up from the pump and ends at that weir fitting i mentioned (it ends directly over the dist. cap... not convenient) and the fuel filter (gold coloered) screwed into the carb.
I tried starting it again until the batterry started to get weak... no fuel seems to be making it up tp the carb, I have a plastic baootle taped on to that end so when gas comes out i can hook everything up once I know theres flow and start again.
So... should I jump the battery with my car and keep trying or should I look into a new fuel pump, or if there no electrical connections to it, does it mean its not a powered pump that has anything that could have broken down? Is there a fuse for anything fuel delivery related I should be looking for?
Ok, strike that... I started cleaning more conections (ground to firewall, re-did battery terminals and starter connection, etc.) , wire brush on the end of a cordless drill, dialectric grease.... and it started turning over again...
EXCELLENT! The starter motor draws the most amperage of any electrical
device on this truck, and good, clean connections & cables are imperative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barty88
I posted two new pictures, one of the carb area where it looks like the fuel line comes up from the pump and ends at that weir fitting i mentioned (it ends directly over the dist. cap... not convenient) and the fuel filter (gold coloered) screwed into the carb.
That stainless tube from the pump to the carb has obviously been bent out of
shape, I think it comes out of the factory routed in front of the distributor and
towards the passenger side before it routes back towards to the carb. What you
have shouldn't hurt anything, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barty88
...no fuel seems to be making it up tp the carb...should I jump the battery with my car and keep trying or should I look into a new fuel pump, or if there no electrical connections to it, does it mean its not a powered pump that has anything that could have broken down?
Three things come to mind... The first is the pump itself, it has a diaphragm in
it sucks from the tank and pumps to the carb. Although it's pretty rare, those
diaphragms sometimes go bad. I had one that developed a small hole in it,
allowing fuel to siphon from the tank and filling up the engine crankcase with
gas (read about it at http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/70...crankcase.html
if you like). It wouldn't surprise me if yours is dry-rotted and in many pieces.
The second is the amount of crud that could be in your tank & lines, blocking
the flow.
The third would be dry-rotted rubber fuel lines, especially at the sending unit
where it connects to the steel line; one on my truck had dry-rotted and was
falling apart into many, small pieces, yet it somehow managed to carrry a
small bit of fuel to the carb.
OK, so, we know fuel isn't making it up to the carb... this is possibly (probably)
gonna be messy but the next component in line is the fuel pump, disconnect the
incoming fuel line from it and see if there is fuel being delivered to it. If you're
lucky, it will be a healthy flow (siphon action would ensure that (if all behind it
is well)) but there's a pretty good chance you won't be lucky here.
Also, you might pull your oil dipstick and see if you can discern any hints
(smells, obvious drastic change in oil fill level, the feel of the fluid on it) of gas
in your oil.
In the end, I think you're gonna end up dropping your tank, blowing out your
lines, cleaning the inside, possibly (probably?) replacing the sending unit (to
make the gas gauge work correctly).
There is also a chance that the pickup tube from the sender to the bottom of
the tank has rotted and fallen off or apart; there's also supposed to be
something of a filter on that tube, too, it may have (probably has) come apart,
too.
Thanks for posting pics, they're most helpful! I can see your fuel pump and the
oil pressure sending unit next to it, this tells me you have factory gauges
instead of idiot lights, right?
Bart88y, a similar topic came up in a different thread and it got me thinking... do you have
dual fuel tanks? If so, there's a switch to the right of the HVAC controls on the center
console....
Not yet, I found a guy local to help for $25 an hour and we're pretty sure the previous owner put a wrong distributor in it. It fires and turns over and everyting, but it puffs smoke (and on a couple of occassions a little fire) out of the carb when we put a capful of gas in there. He cant adjust the firing order because of the way the distributor and the cap fit, they only fit one way. I have no idea about the actual distributor until we take it out and compare it to the one we know is right, but the previous owner most definitely ad the wronmg cap in it... its tricky figuring ot whether its eec3 or not, but apparently its not becasue the control mod is on the dender well and not on the distributor, from what the guy at napa said. We replaced the fuel pump too, and havent gotten fuel coming in yet, so there may be a tank issue as well, but right now we cant get it timed right because it is mis firing. Got new wires, new plugs, new cap and rotor, new fuel lines from pump to carb, new clear fuel filter, removed part of the smog system as the pump wasnt hooked up anyway and other parts were disconnected and or rotted off... man I really want to clean up all the wires and hoses and crap I dont need if i get this thing running too. I will keep ya posted, hopefully this week we can put in the distributor.
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smth like 7/16" or
