I generally don't like to replace parts without first having some evidence that they're faulty
and need replacing, it can be costly and is usually not effective.
The flywheel (if manual transmission, flex plate if auto) is attached to the rear of the
crankshaft. Unless something is majorly broken (which HAS happened before) the rear of
the crankshaft will turn (along with the fly/flex) when you turn the front.
This is why I asked if the rotor under the dist cap turned when you cranked the front; it's all
connected together. Similarly, if you remove the starter motor and turn the front of the
engine by hand, you should be able to see the fly/flex also turning.
I would be inclined to take the starter motor to an auto parts store and have it tested. Do
you have a volt/ohm meter? It can be used to measure continuity & resistance and can help
you figure out if electrical components are operating up to spec or not. Make sure your
grounds & connections are good (you already know this, I know....).
sounds like the starter is stuck, have someone try to crank it while you listen to see if thats where the hum is coming from. If so, smack the starter with a hammer. If you dont have a voltmeter its gonna be hard to diagnose it further
I have a pro grade Grenlee meter that I use for my old house wiring, but I wouldn't have a clue what to measure or how on this truck...
I also just noticed while checking connections that what i thinmk is the coil is messed up. It looks more like a tapered beer can, while others I see online in pics look more square, flat and have a rounded front that bumps out... this is like a small soda cup from McDonalds. Anyway, the wire that plugs on top isnt connected to anything, it slides freely inside the boot.
Is it missing a aprt or do I need a new one? EVen if this is messed up, the truck would try to turn over if it werent messed up at the starter, flywheel level right?
I cant figue out how to post my pics, other than the album here, I hope this works..... it asks for a url address... I dont have them posted on the internet anywhere. I cant copy and paste either.
In general, yes, the pics need to be online someplace... some people sign up on one of
those free, online hosting services (photobucket, flickr, imageshack.us, etc.) while others
will have 'em in their FTE galleries... This Album thing is relatively new and I haven't
looked at it at all and don't know how to use it nor what the benefits might be over a
gallery.
Anyway... OK, so, I see what looks like an ignition coil that's apparently not connected
to the center conductor in the distributor cap. When you describe square coils, I think you
might be referring to the GM HEI variant and I think those are located in or on top of the
center of the distributor cap. Not being a GM guy I really don't know.
Yes, that not being connected would definitely keep the engine from starting. The coil's
high-tension (thick) cable goes to the center of the distributor cap.
But, the engine needs to turn over, first...
Can you get somebody to turn the key for you while you listen & watch under the hood?
It sounds to me like your solenoid might be OK but the starter isn't turning for some
reason, that's generating heat in the electrical circuits and causing the smoke.
With the transmission in Park or neutral and the parking brake set, you can "turn the key"
yourself:
Jumper between the battery positive cable (#1 or #3) to the, um, I think it's the S terminal
on the relay (aka solenoid) and is #5 on the diagram. If your relay/solenoid has two small,
screw-type contacts and is of the more modern type, the correct terminal is the one
labaled (I think) S and is closest to the battery and it has a red/blue-stripe wire connected
to it; there is sometimes a second, unused terminal labeled I that is close to the
starter's connection, this is because replacement solenoids fit more than one vehicle
type and that terminal isn't used on all vehicles.
Disconnect the red/blue-stripe wire from the solenoid; jumpering between the battery +
cable and that terminal will activate the starter motor, it's the same thing as turning the
key to START but without supplying power to the ignition system.
I really hope there's something up with the starter motor or solenoid and not the engine
itself...
Thanks! I hope its just a starter issue too (and one that can be fixed rather than repalced... but that may be wishing for too much). I think I can get my wife to turn the key for me, she's 38 weeks pregnant but if I can get her up in the seat she can sit and turn a key.
As for the starter... banging on it with a hammer is my style of approach! Can I spray anything anywhere on it to help loosen anything up like PB Blaster, liquid wrench, WD40, silicone, or electrical component cleaner? Or just whack it good a few times?
This is the solenoid I got for $18 incl. S+H just to be sure... I normally wouldn't have but it was a good price and then I know I need to trouble shooy down past that.
I would personally want to remove the starter and check it out, make sure the Bendix
mechanism works and nothing is stuck/seized. Maybe even take it to an auto parts store
and have them test it for operational functionality & current draw.
Yeah, I also hope there's a success story to this, too....
I know nothing about coils. In the pics I posted does that look normal? Should I push the wire down (because it slides in the boot that connects to the top of the coil) until I feel it hit something? Doesnt seem right, shouldnt it 'snap' on? The hole that is at the top, is that supposed to be there or is it missing a part?
They have Standard coils with lifetime warranty at VIP for $19, Advance has them for $20 and Carquest for $30. These are WAY less expensive than the ones here:
But see what I mean about how extremely different they look? It also looks like they would have to connect in a different way. Leaving work early to go pull the starter today.
I know nothing about coils. In the pics I posted does that look normal?
Actually, no, it doesn't; that doesn't look like any coil wire I've ever seen
before, it looks like it could be a hack... See that LONG rubber boot where the
oil wire connects onto the cap? That looks like a boot that's supposed to
cover spark plug, NOT a cap's center connector.
You're right, it normally should "snap" into place, you should be able to feel it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barty88
Should I push the wire down (because it slides in the boot that connects to the top of the coil) until I feel it hit something?
I would do that, but if that wire is a hack job, there's no telling if it will snap or
not. In general, the snap is caused by a dimple in the wire's brass connector
sliding over a ridge in the cap's mating connector, this helps secure it into
place.
Quote:
The hole that is at the top, is that supposed to be there or is it missing a part?
Not sure what you're talking about here, I don't see the hole you're referring to?
I really doubt you can purchase just the center coil wire at an auto parts store
so you'd probably end up getting an entire set ($50-$80+ depending).
That's definitely an aftermarket coil and home-made electrical connections to
it; presumably, they're correct and that setup worked.
For now, I would just connect everything as well as I could and see if the truck
runs with it before spending much time & effort on it (for now).
Quote:
They have Standard coils with lifetime warranty at VIP for $19, Advance has them for $20 and Carquest for $30. These are WAY less expensive than the ones here:
But see what I mean about how extremely different they look? It also looks like they would have to connect in a different way.
Yeah, and this topic can be a can of worms, it depends on who you walk to.
Some people feel that the factory ignition is "barely adequate" to fire the plugs
and that an aftermarket ignition system is a must-have. And, there are all kinds
of ignition systems & parts out there to cater to those people, and you can
spend several hundred dollars on that stuff.
For a daily driver, or to use a car or truck in the manner for which it was
designed & constructed, my personal feeling is that the Ford DuraSpark II
system is hard to beat and is just fine.
This ignition stuff, though, is second to getting the engine to actually turn over
via the starter motor (and, ideally, start). Once we have it where the engine will
crank when you turn the key, we can proceed on.
Let us know what you find with the starter....
BTW did you find any water or antifreeze or any foreign material in the crankcase
oil when you drained it?
I took the coil out to bring it and have someone look at it too. It looks like the wire has a splayed peice of copper on the end to 'snap' into a receiving place inside the coil, but the copper on the wire is so thin that it gets clamped easily and has no spring back to form a tight fit, but may not be an issue, we'll see.
As for the starter I whacked a few times with a hammer and tried starting it twice. It mad a definite 'whir' like the starter motor was spinning freely, no attempt at the engine turning over. So I think initially the starter was stuck. So I removed the starter and it only has one wire (I think negative attached) My '02 f-250 diesel had two, is one normal (from the negative battery terminal to the engine block to the starter?
Anyway when I removed the starter the teeth were most definitely worn off at the very end, about the first 1/8 of an inch is ground almost off. The flywheel does spin with hand cranking the harmonic balancer so maybe this was just wore out, or they put the wrong one in a while back, or a cheap one or maybe it wasn't fully coming out of the starter housing to fully engage the flywheel and only barely getting the edge of the gear teeth on it? Is that possible or common in issues like this?
I'm gonna get a new reman) starter at Carquest tomorrow for $55, hopefully put it in this weekend.
There should be only one cable to the starter, it'll lead from the solenoid down to the motor
(providing positive current). People have sometimes attached the battery's negative
connection down there, too; say, on one of the bolts that holds the starter to the bell
housing. It's OK if you want to do that but I don't see the benefit (if your cables are good
and your connections are clean).
Boy, I'm glad the flywheel spins when the front of the engine is turned! *whew* There's a
guy out here who found himself with a broken crankshaft sometime last summer (although I
think he abuses his trucks in mud pits and such).
No water that was obvious to me. It looked like very dark brown oil, no real debris, and nothing out of the ordinary obvious to me but I am not sure I would have been able to spot anything unless it was obvious.
Succes... sort of. I put the new starter in and it turned over... but no fire, due to noe fuel. I fiddled ith the fuel line nd tried to start it again, but now its dead.
I am hoping this is a fuse issue due to too many and too long start attempts. Any idea what to look for, a place to get a fuse diagram, or should I be checking ,replacing relays
I fiddled ith the fuel line nd tried to start it again, but now its dead.
Not sure what you're saying when you say it's dead but you're wanting to look
at electrical components which has me thinking the starter doesn't turn the
engine anymore when you turn the key to START.
Do your headlights work? If so, turn them on, then turn the key to START;
what happens to the headlights? If you have a volt/ohm meter, measure the
voltage at the battery with the key in START.
What about interior electrical accessories, do they work?
What about when jumpering the starter solenoid between the battery + cable
and the solenoid's (I think, the one with the red/blue-stripe wire) 'I' terminal in
the diagram?
Also, do you know if you an have electrical or mechanical fuel pump?
Mechanical will be bolted to the front driver's side down low, near (or on) the
timing case cover.
EDIT: If jumpering the solenoid results in the starter turning over the engine... connect
the red/blue-stripe wire to the solenoid (if you previously removed it) and jumper that
connection with the key in RUN, that would be equivalent (more or less) to turning the
key to START when the rest of the truck is connected & operating properly.
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The coil's
