Overheat that long life fluid once and see how long the tranny lasts. And while you're at it, have fun crawling under the truck to check the fluid condition someplace in the middle of nowhere. I'll take the shorter maintenance periods any day over the increased cost for convenience. Other than more gears in the tranny and slightly better fuel mileage, I can't see where the technological advancements are advances. Even with the shorter maintenance schedules of my old 95 it is still cheaper to own and operate than the new stuff over the life of the truck, and I never broke off any plugs changing them either. And that old 5.8L would keep up with my 5.4L without a problem and get slightly better fuel mileage towing.
It's been interesting reading posts made by the proponents of old technology. Reading between the lines, it seems some people are fearful or resistant of adopting new technologies. In general, new technology is what advances society.
For life cycle cost, it's great Ford has given the new F150s sealed transmission units that feature 100k miles fluid change intervals. Think of the savings in time and cost it affords the F150 owner over the life of the truck. I loved the idea of no grease fittings as the industry switched over to the sealed modular units too.
The fear of transmission failure without frequent fluid changes is unfounded. Of course, for the old school fluid changers, you can always drop the pan on the transmission as often as you like. But for myself, I'll save doing the needless work but more importantly, save the unnecessary expense of frequent fluid changes.
Well I love new technology as much as the next guy, but removing things that prevent people from monitoring vital systems is a step backwards in my opinion. Remember in the 80's when they replaced gauges with idiot lights? They were called idiot lights for a reason, they were for people who couldn't/didn't want to read gauges or worry about monitoring vital systems they just wanted to get in and drive. Well guess what when the light came on you ended up on the side of the road. A step back in technology in my opinion. You mention you liked it when they removed grease fitting, well I hate to break it to you but the only difference between the two joints is the removal of the fitting, they are exactly the same internally. Some cars/trucks even had removeable plugs where you could install fitting before they totally elliminated them and yes these were sold as lubed for life also. Just because something is there, grease fitting/ transmission dipstick, etc doesn't mean you have to use it, so if people are worried about saving time, then don't pump fresh grease into the fitting, don't check the transmission fluid etc. it will be the same as not having them installed. But for those of us who like to do preventive mainteance and monitor our vital systems this technogoly is a step backwards. This post is not directed toward you in particular "big ol truck" I'm not singling you out just commenting on what you posted and toward people who like having a convenient monitoring item removed from there truck. For those that say the transmission is improved to where it doesn't need fluid changes till 100k miles I have to ask you, has anyone gone 100k miles without a problem on their 09 truck yet to prove this theroy? Look on the Explorer forms and see what they say about the new and improved tranny they got (with dipstick removed and 100k service intervals) and see how that worked out. I hope our transmissions are greatly improved and will go 100k without worry (although I for one keep my trucks a lot longer, around 300k before I consider replaceing them, and I believe I have been able to go this far by doing regular maintenace including fluid and filter changes to the Transmission, etc), and based on the build quality on my 09 I believe they are greatly improved but I don't believe things blindly just because someone says it's so or its printed in a book, take a look at our polititions as a perfect example. As for another poster saying that our transmissions are a sealed system and therefore don't need to be monitored well in that line of thinking so is the braking system and it has a fill cap installed on the master cylinder. Well I am sorry for being long winded on this response, (and I am sure I have made a few people mad like when I asked who actually did the mainteance themselves) but I guess the manufactures should sell two types of cars/trucks, one with dipsticks, guages and the ability to check and monitor vital systems, and one with just a fuel guage, speedomoter, and 1 light that says return to dealer when something breaks for those that are worried about saving time and doing unwanted maintanence.
Dear Ford: No good deed goes unpunished. All the armchair "experts" do not appreciate some of your great advances.
Yes Mr. Johnwill you yourself must be one of those armchair "experts" that you are referring to, I on the other hand have had formal training, and have rebuilt / replaced just about every part on cars and trucks from bumper to bumper, including rebuilding engines, transmissions, rear ends, suspensions systems, etc. If I am an armchair "expert" as you imply well then I would like to know what your qualifications are for believing that I am wrong. Remember just because something is touted as new and improved doesn't make it so without proff to support the statement. If you do believe without proof to back things up well then all I can say is you must also believe higher taxes and paying more for things is also an improvment because someone told you so.
I love my Ford truck and am not bashing them in anyway like some of you may be thinking, I believe they make a great product, if not then I would not have bought a Mustang (its a stick shift before someone tells me they don't have transmission dipsticks either). I just don't like when simple items are removed for what I believe to be a cost cutting measure for the manufacturer. I don't like it when things are dumbed down making it harder for people to do simple maintenance. I must not be in the minority about this subject or Canton products would not be producing a retrofit transmission pan and dipstick to add to the Mustang to replace the part removed by the manufacturer, I just hope they eventually make one to install on our trucks. For those that don't want it then fine don't buy it but I am sure many of us would love to install one on our truck. Like I said in a previous post just because something is there does not mean you have to use it, after all just because there is a dipstick to check the oil doesn't mean you have to actually check it if you don't want to.
Dear Ford: No good deed goes unpunished. All the armchair "experts" do not appreciate some of your great advances.
Yes I suppose its good they eliminated the dipstick. It might keep some dipsticks from reading the fluid level wrong if they actually get up off the couch once or away from their computer and try to look under the hood.
Dear Ford: I liked that you went back to a simple reliable solid axle design on the super duty line (at the time was stepping back about 20 years to the 78-79 design with coil springs and radius arms), and I like how you still offer the reliable heavy duty 6 speed stick shift, full manual transfer case, and full manual lock out hubs. At least for one more year. They factored in greatly in my decision to go to the SD. Some of us, even ones that buy brand new $30k+ vehicles, still want simple and reliable and don’t need what some think are technological advances. Heck when did power windows and doors come out? I have yet to have a truck with them in the 4 that I have owned... no need, my hands work perfectly fine, (and if you have never experienced a manual crank window before then I'll tell you it doesn’t actually break a sweat or anything to operate em like some people fear) and less chance of problems in the future.
Call me crazy but I actually care about how long my vehicle will last, not just 2 years until I trade it in. And my most recent vehicle even more so, I plan on driving this one till she falls apart. Wonder how long that 6 speed or yours will last compared to the 6 speed of mine? Mine is under a lot more torque though against a lot more weight. And the more common problems with mine I can fix myself. Unless your a professional mechanic I highly doubt your going to be getting into the 6 speed auto.
Its a shame all this discussion comes about from a dipstick (on the transmission, I mean). Technology advance is great... but I still fail to see how this has anything to do with eliminating a dipstick. Maybe next when technology advances and service intervals go longer and everything is permanent sealed units they can just do away with hoods that open too. I bet lots of folks would be so happy when they cant even pop the hood anymore.
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09 F-350 V10 4x4 6spd CC/8' ordered 5/26/09 delivered 7/6/09
99 F-150 4x4 Reg/Short bed
78 Big Bronco 4x4 (a work in progress)
84 Tbird (351W project still in dry dock)
Ryan, it's not that hard to pack your own wheel bearings every time you do a brake job. The old set up lasted longer and was more inexpensive for the consumer in the long run than the junk that is shoved down our throats now.............If you doubt me, then why has the average age of motor vehicles been steadily increasing over the last 15 years?
1...sure its not hard...but it is time consuming and for the person who doesn't do their own maintance...(the majority)...its expensive...I'd like you to show me data that the old bearing system lasted longer...i'll bet you can't find one hard piece of evidence of this...Fiance's car has 120,000 miles on original bearings...nothing EVER done to them....and no sign of going bad..lets see that out of an old packable bearing....
The reason they last longer is because they're built better....better sealed bearings...better engine specs (getting rid of 300 I6's for mod motors) getting rid of 5spd mazda trannies for auto sealed units.....thats why they're on the road longer....they're built better
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2007 Lariat screw - White Sand Tri Coat - chrome package - Black leather captains chairs - sunroof - audiophile - 20" Mark LT wheels - Color Matched Door handles -
2005 XLT scab -
1995 xlt scab - 13 inches of lift - SAS
Needed: 2004-2008 OEM cat back for F-150 supercrew
Yea cars and trunks are made very well today, but for a guy who is doing a lot of towing, they can wear the trans fluid out, the additives only last so long.
What do you have that shows this? Tranny fluids of today are hardly the same tranny fluids that were in trucks 20 years ago....just as bearings have changed....so have trannies and fluids
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2007 Lariat screw - White Sand Tri Coat - chrome package - Black leather captains chairs - sunroof - audiophile - 20" Mark LT wheels - Color Matched Door handles -
2005 XLT scab -
1995 xlt scab - 13 inches of lift - SAS
Needed: 2004-2008 OEM cat back for F-150 supercrew
I'm just curious what actually changed in the tranny that it doesnt need to be checked? Maybe I am confused but I dont think this really has anything to do with technology advancement and more to do with ford not wanting consumers to have anything to do with maintenence any more. Yes, some things do improve with technology, but car manufacturers do make things harder for us over time, thats a fact.
Its great if they make the transmission better such that it needs less frequent maintenence. That has nothing to do with eliminating and easy to get to dipstick. What would happen if it starts to leak 5 or 10 years down the road??? is it some kind of scientific impossibility that the fluid level would ever go down lol? Some folks apparently dont give a crap and trade in and get brand new vehicles every couple years and dont deal with maintenence. Those are the folks the auto makers really like. Me, I like the KISS principle and do as much work as I can myself. Big reason I went to the SD so I could still get the manual transmission, manual transfer case, manual lock-out hubs, solid axles.
Better seals means less leaks....better seals and vents means less chance of contamination.....better fluids means longer lifes....better cooling systems means less heat...which leads to longer fluid life...and longer transmission life....all of those may have lead to ford saying....huh...not going to need to pull the dipstick and check the fluid anymore....
__________________
2007 Lariat screw - White Sand Tri Coat - chrome package - Black leather captains chairs - sunroof - audiophile - 20" Mark LT wheels - Color Matched Door handles -
2005 XLT scab -
1995 xlt scab - 13 inches of lift - SAS
Needed: 2004-2008 OEM cat back for F-150 supercrew
Dear Ford: I liked that you went back to a simple reliable solid axle design on the super duty line (at the time was stepping back about 20 years to the 78-79 design with coil springs and radius arms), and I like how you still offer the reliable heavy duty 6 speed stick shift, full manual transfer case, and full manual lock out hubs. At least for one more year. They factored in greatly in my decision to go to the SD. Some of us, even ones that buy brand new $30k+ vehicles, still want simple and reliable and don’t need what some think are technological advances. Heck when did power windows and doors come out? I have yet to have a truck with them in the 4 that I have owned... no need, my hands work perfectly fine, (and if you have never experienced a manual crank window before then I'll tell you it doesn’t actually break a sweat or anything to operate em like some people fear) and less chance of problems in the future.
I'd love to see how you intend to fix that SD V10 when one of the numerous sensors either fails or goes intermittent and it requires a Toughbook with the proper Ford software (Rotunda, I think?) to figure it out. You aren't going to fix such a problem with a test light and a hammer...
Hell, let's go back to oil lanterns for headlights and wooden wheels. No bulbs to burn out, no tires to get flats due to road debris. Genius!
I'd love to see how you intend to fix that SD V10 when one of the numerous sensors either fails or goes intermittent and it requires a Toughbook with the proper Ford software (Rotunda, I think?) to figure it out. You aren't going to fix such a problem with a test light and a hammer...
Hell, let's go back to oil lanterns for headlights and wooden wheels. No bulbs to burn out, no tires to get flats due to road debris. Genius!
Youll notice in what you quoted from me that I did not mention the motor. There was no 'simpler, more reliable' motor option tobe had anyhow. Compared to the other option, the 6.4, however, I do beleive I have a simpler and more maintenence friendly motor and that was a mjor deciding factor in my engine choice.
Your taking my statements way out of context. I'd like to see you adequately light the road with oil lanterns and maintain the same kind of speed and load rating with wooden wheels
And besides, what your suggesting isnt that uncommon even though I'm sure you didnt intended it to be serious... Think of the Amish community. I know many Amish (actually have a crew of em working on barn for me right now) and I think more highly of them than a lot of other people in this world thats for sure...
Ford does a lot of things because they think the average user is an idiot. They also do a lot of things to be trendy or keep up with the Jones. I wish to not be included in either of those categories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan50hrl
Better seals means less leaks....better seals and vents means less chance of contamination.....better fluids means longer lifes....better cooling systems means less heat...which leads to longer fluid life...and longer transmission life....all of those may have lead to ford saying....huh...not going to need to pull the dipstick and check the fluid anymore....
Well I'll take your word for it that the seals and fluids are that much better from just a year ago. I'd try to verify what you are saying but since I just got a new truck this year I'm not to worried about it if you know what I mean. But things have gotten better in the past, and they have always kept the dipstick... and now that vehicles are being driven a few hundred thousand miles I would think things like the dipstick would be just as important.
__________________
09 F-350 V10 4x4 6spd CC/8' ordered 5/26/09 delivered 7/6/09
99 F-150 4x4 Reg/Short bed
78 Big Bronco 4x4 (a work in progress)
84 Tbird (351W project still in dry dock)
Well I'll take your word for it that the seals and fluids are that much better from just a year ago. I'd try to verify what you are saying but since I just got a new truck this year I'm not to worried about it if you know what I mean. But things have gotten better in the past, and they have always kept the dipstick... and now that vehicles are being driven a few hundred thousand miles I would think things like the dipstick would be just as important.
I'm not saying it got that much better than last year....but i wouldn't doubt that the seals in the new tranny are that much better....and fluids have been improving for years....so at somepoint they finally decided it just wasn't needed. Maybe they could have left the tranny dipstick out of the last generation.....i have to admit i've got one...check it every 5000 miles...and not once in 90,000 miles (between my 05 and 07) have ever had to add fluid or thought it needed to be changed.....so maybe they've not needed one since 04....but decided now it was finally time to go
__________________
2007 Lariat screw - White Sand Tri Coat - chrome package - Black leather captains chairs - sunroof - audiophile - 20" Mark LT wheels - Color Matched Door handles -
2005 XLT scab -
1995 xlt scab - 13 inches of lift - SAS
Needed: 2004-2008 OEM cat back for F-150 supercrew
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. I'd like to see you adequately light the road with oil lanterns and maintain the same kind of speed and load rating with wooden wheels
