OK, some of you have read my other posts regarding a power loss I've been dealing with for a few months now. I first tried to solve the issue by "Easter Egging" and replaced fuel filters, pump, HFCM...that was money HORRIBLY spent.

Last week I decided to take out my EGR valve (again) and clean the intake out, using carb. cleaner and some notes from this site. My truck was on my inclined driveway, front higher than the back...this might've been my 1st mistake?

Anyway, started the engine with the EGR valve removed, spraying carb. cleaner in and running it up in the RPMs to blow some soot out...when the truck shut off. I spent a day messing around with it and never got it started - gave up on the idea and a friend had it towed to the dealership.

OK, it sat most of Friday and all weekend, much to my chagrin.

I authorized the $190 diagnostic and they said no codes...and "upsold" me on 4hrs labor to remove the valve covers and do an air test on the injector rails...so we're at around $600 at this point.

Around lunchtime today I verified that they took the truck in and started diagnostics. A few hours later I got a phone call saying that my #2 injector, the IPR and ICP need to be replaced.

OK, I suspected an IPR or ICP and possibly an injector or two gone bad...BUT ALL THREE?? Meanwhile the truck would throw NO codes using my Livewire scanner, and the dealership didn't get any codes either.

They did get the software to tell them that I only built up 160-some lbs. of oil press. during cranking and it needed over 500psi - I think I recall reading about that on here, so I bought the story that I must have a leak in the HPOP plumbing/injector fittings, etc.

SO, they took the valve covers off and did the air test on the HPOP rails, etc. and claim the #2 injector was leaking out of the top. I came by later to see the injector as I had never seen one "in the flesh" - the tech. pointed out an O-ring at the top of the injector that was "squared off" and said that was my leak, I asked about replacement O-rings instead of changing a $350 injector - he claimed that Ford will not provide this part??

I see Injector O-ring kits on eBay, etc. and they have THREE parts, a blue/white O-ring, an orange one and what appears to be a brass/copper clip?? ...but I have to admit, nothing that appears to be the smaller black O-ring in the top of the injector.

SO, is it true we cannot source this O-ring?? ...am I getting ROBBED with replacing the injector??

If this O-ring is "squared off" - aren't the other ones going to be close behind??

Supposedly the ICP has insufficient or inconsistent voltage readings and the IPR valve is not operating properly via an "air test".

Alright, here's the cost for parts quoted at first:

Injector - $353.00
IPR - $35X.00
ICP - $15X.00

Kinda high, but they worked with me to get the injector down to $200 and the IPR to a little under $200 - still pricey, but I understand the '03 6.0L has a different IPR and ICP...the ICP they maybe knocked $20 off.

Alright, as I feel they worked with me to save some $$$$$$$$$ I'm not going to voice this post as a complaint, but rather asking what YOU think from you experiences with dealerships, pricing, etc.

SO, I guess I will finish up with a few BIG questions that I have:

Is it possible that the ICP, IPR and an injector could be defective WITHOUT the truck throwing one related DTC/Code??

Is it feasible that an injector was causing my low-power issue and the ICP or IPR went bad while I was troubleshooting and shut down the engine? ...it makes sense, somewhat, but I fail to understand how either component would fail while the engine was running, in my driveway...and shut the engine off and pushing me to a "no start" condition.

...and lastly, is it a fact we cannot get the O-ring that is in the top of the injector, vice REPLACING the injector at $200 each for parts cost PLUS labor??

The bill is almost $1,000 with replacing the #2 injector only...they say this will get the truck to start but I will probably still have the power loss I've been experiencing for months due to a faulty IPR AND ICP...seems like they're going to work me out a deal for about $1,300 if they go ahead and replace the ICP/IPR...at this point, I figure "what the heck" - the truck is there and I need it BADLY by tomorrow to go on a race trip...so I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

While I feel that BOTH the IPR/ICP are NOT defective, I don't have much time (and confidence at this point) to change them out myself and for the $$$$$$$$$ and the deal they're offering, (about another $300 as mentioned previously)...why not - right?? ...I can source both parts myself for about $250 - so I figure it's a moot point.

Again, I can't figure out how to write this post and not sound negative towards the dealership. As it's the first time I've ever turned in anything to a dealership on my dime (out of warranty) I feel pretty vulnerable and it's had me on edge for 4 days now...I can't help it. I ALWAYS fix/upgrade my own vehicles and this fix is one for the books.

I apologize for the LONG post but wanted to get this down "on paper" somehow and figure why not share my story...thanks for listening and I appreciate any useful advice.

NEXT time I think I'll do the air test myself, the tech. showed me a few "tricks". ...and the injectors appear easy enough to replace...the IPR/ICP on an '03 is a pain indeed.

 

The o-ring in the top of the injector is NOT available as a replacement part. The three in the kit are as follows--2 for the injector barrel where it goes in the head and one for the injector connector where it goes through the head. The copper washer goes over the injector nozzle where it goes into the cup in the head. I'm gonna let a tech weigh in on the rest of the parts. I personally wouldn't have let him change the ICP/IPR unless he could prove to me that they were bad since the leak was on top of the injector.

 

Thanks.

I do think I had TWO problems...one that was causing the "low-power" situation and whatever failed and shut the engine off while I was futzing around the other day.

At this point I think I'm happy tht they found the issue as I was about ready to buy a good used FICM and see what that did...would've been a waste of $$$$$$$$ but at least I would've had a spare at that point.

I was definitely suspecting a bad injector or two, or the possibility of an IPR/ICP but was totally MIFFED that the truck wouldn't throw any related codes for ME or the dealership.

I did the math on my "ideas" to fix my truck and it pretty much added up to a lot of time and about $1,200 - so the $1,300 bill they are planning on handing me today, I have pretty much accepted.

At least it appears I'll make it to race day on time!

That O-ring should be available, it's ridiculous that it is not...is this a "we'd rather sell parts than fix something" type scenario or is does that O-ring have too much "mystery" behind it for Ford/International to trust their techs to change out?

Anyway, thanks for your reply npccpartsman, you've been of great help with your suggestions/ideas through this situation, but you DO owe me a cold beverage.

 

Look at it this way. You are within 100 bucks of breaking even and they did the labor and you have your truck on time. Win-Win it looks like to me.

 

AH, as of 1pm today I WISH it were a win-win situation.

NOW I am convinced they are "Easter Egging" (throwing parts at) my truck!

When this all started, they couldn't get the truck to throw any codes...nor could I...oil press. under cranking was a scant 169lbs...I understand the injectors need 500+lbs to fire??

SO, the next step in the "Ford troubleshooting flowchart" was to pull the valve covers and do an air test, OK, I've seen that/read about it and witnessed how it's done yesterday.

They said the #2 injector was leaking at the top so they had already changed it by the time I got there. The tech. demonstrated the air test for me (dry run)...so I didn't see anything leaking myself.

They also stated the ICP/IPR were leaking air, one or the other and the IPR was not operating (shutting off??)...so I agreed for them to change both, well, sort of (they have me by the kahunas)...

TODAY, I get a call that says it still won't start and they think it's an HPOP because my oil press. is still only 169lbs. - WHAT THE _______?????

The HPOP is about $900 list and 6+hrs to change - oh lord...Service Rep. stated we could probably get the total down to about $1,200 for the HPOP changeout...so now we're at $2,400 and somehow FOUR components "DIED" to cause my no-start condition.

I call TOTAL B.S. on this one friends.

I agree that the HPOP can fail, I agree that this will cause the truck NOT to run, but I DO NOT agree that they could determine all these other parts (#2 injector, ICP and IPR) to be defective, THEN all of a sudden when the truck doesn't start we go for the MAIN part of the system.

I'm a reasonable person and agree that if that #2 injector was indeed defective, that was likely my low-power condition, an IPR or ICP could cause issues as well - I agree, I agree...BUT ALL THREE?? Nope, notta, no way...

SO, I guess the injector/ICP/IPR were causing my low power issues for several months and while I was tinkering with the motor my HPOP gave out - or the STC fitting...WOW, this is too much to take.

Sidebar: I got to drive my friend's 2009 F350 dually around yesterday to pickup my trailer/race car, while it towed like a dream, un-hitched it was a dog. What a BEAUTIFUL truck though, I am in love with everything except for the non-towing performance, very uneventful.

Thank you for enduring my rant, please excuse the LONG post again...it's therapy for an otherwise unstable ME...har-har.

 

OK--I can handle a cold beverage or two or three. It's still not done yet though. I hope and pray that they AREN"T just throwing parts at it like I think they are.

 

You absolutely right, it is kind of weird or let's just say it out loud, BS, that 3 parts later they say, "Well, it seems like it is the 4th part....., so it will be $$$$$$, but to show how nice we are, we'll cut off half a $ from the final bill" . It feels like, they kick you in the a$$, but they ask you before, which side you prefer.....
I've been in your shoes, first at Ford's body-shop, and not too long ago at a transmission shop. Both times I said, "FU, just give me the bill for my unfixed truck" , and I fixed it myself. More labor, so what. At least we were bounding - my tuck and me.
And I put it this way: I paid them to teach me, that: the best if I don't let anybody touch my truck - EVER. And after all the mods you see in my sig - ARP-s, EGR delete, and rebuild my own tranny - I'd say , I learned the lesson good.
Don't give up on your truck - give up on your dealer......!

If you need parts, I can highly recommend FTEpartsguy, he'll hook you up on reasonable prices....

 

I agree, it aint over till the diesel "sings"...that's fer sure...one thing that will be OVER indeed is my damned Visa card.

Out of those four components (HPOP OR an STC fitting counted as ONE) I would think this damn thing will run?? ...and have all my power back??

If not, I give up...going to buy a Toyota Tacoma...

I am ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED they are throwing parts at it, and truthfully, from what I have seen with the air test, changing an injector, etc. - I could've thrown those parts at it my damn self.

As for getting my own parts, I think they're "dealing" enough on them to where it's not worth the effort...ALL I have to run around on is my Harley and I'm at work tonight - RAIN in the forcast - DOH!!

 

Did you ask your friend about the MPG?
My buddy has an 09 F450 Dually , drive it a lot, wouldn't change my truck for TWO of those.....

 

His truck is PURE sexy, I tell ya...gorgeous in every aspect and guess what...IT RUNS!!

I dunno about MPG as it's an F350 with shorter gearset/heavier, etc. so I'm sure it gets WAY less than mine, being that I am an F250, short bed/extended cab...his was a dually with crew-cab so I'm guessing a good 3-4MPG LESS than mine??

I want my damn truck back, I am SO irritated right now!!

 

Sad to hear a story like this one. I went through a simiular situation and ended up fixing it myself for $135 and a lot of help from Brickie and others on this site. I think alot of the Ford stealerships do not have a reliable 6.0 mechanic.

 

Mine is a crew/long bed, my friend's is a crew/long bed dually - lower gears, that's true. That 3-4 in our situation is more like 6-7, maybe 8. Now that's bad! And we were running side by side on highway, I could do exactly twice the distance with one tank , as he could.
People's tastes are different - I do not like the front of those trucks at all.

 

Alright, after all that whining, I figure I owe you guys the rest of the story.

I got my truck back last Wednesday evening, just in time to load up on Thursday.

They had measured the oil press. under cranking at 168lbs, determined I had a leaky injector, IPR and claimed the ICP was bad as well - they replaced all three and claimed the oil press. (while cranking) was up to 240psi.

As oil press. needs to be 500psi + - I understand this could be my NO-start condition?

SO, the other thing that I understand is that a leaky injector could cause pressure loss...and that could've been my low power situation, prior to the truck going into a no-start condition.

Well, they determined the root of the problem to be my HPOP, made sense but damn was I mad that I had turned the truck in for a NO-start condition and they had completed about $1,600 worth of work and the thing still didn't start!

I didn't agree that an injector, the ICP and IPR were all bad, but what was I to argue at that point...until the truck didn't start.

I gave authorization to change out the HPOP and about 24hrs later, they reported that the truck was running quite well.

In summary: they found small items that supposedly caused a leak in the HPOP system and fixed those, then found that the HPOP was bad.

Is it possible the HPOP was causing my low power situation the whole time and it finally produced such low pressures that the truck wouldn't run? If so, what fails in the HPOP that would allow the truck to run for months and then NOT run?

They saved all the parts, the HPOP had no obvious signs of failure, but what do I know? The ICP/IPR looked fine with no obvious signs of leakage, this is my FOURTH ICP now.

The bill was $3,046.00 but they reduced it to $2,169 by discounting the parts to 10% over cost and charged me employee labor rate at $70 an hour - after all the hassle, I have to admit I feel they did me a favor and worked with me. Even if a couple of the parts were guessed at (as long as it wasn't the HPOP they guessed at!!) we're doing OK.

FINAL REPORT, I could tell the truck ran strong pulling out of the dealership. I drove it for about 15min. back to work. When I got off work I programmed the truck for max power via my Livewire system, drove it about 1/2 way home so it was good and warmed up...and hammered it - WOW!!

SO, I guess it's safe to say I had a bad injector the whole time but am mystified as to why all of a sudden an HPOP would fail with no obvious signs.

All in all I'm happy, had a nice strong tow to the racetrack on Friday, I qualified on the pole and won my race!! ...not to mention picked up another championship for the series. It was a good weekend...man/truck/racecar reunited!!

 

I know you were joking, but I've owned two Toyota Tacomas. For what they are, you can't beat them. Hell, nothing else is even close in their class. "Tough" doesn't even do them justice.

 

I was driving down the highway and the truck lost power and shut off a mile later, $3500 for HPOP, IPR, ICP.