"The POS heater stove"
Nothing to do with the choke??? It is the often forgotten part of the drivability issue. Your referring to the choke assist. It has been proven to be superior to electric choke but after 30+ years need serious attention. The differance is the time it takes for the choke to pull off. It takes about 5min for a engine to heat up with fast idle and that is about the time it takes the choke assisted system useing the manifold heat plenum to pull off the choke. Watch your electric choke it will pull off in less than a min. I switched to a electronic choke which also times out at about 4.5 to 5 min. Another driveability issue. But if all you do is drive from stop light to stop light with your foot mashed to the floor then who cares right. LOL!! Hey as long as it sounds cool.
Never said it wouldn't drive. On a 390 it's a great plan. If your looking for real torque put what you have on a 390. It will flow that much. But I don't care what kind of math you use you will never get a mostly stock 360 to even come close to that much flow or perform like a 390. But of course you have proven it does. Good job!
I learn something new every day.
"The POS heater stove"
Nothing to do with the choke??? It is the often forgotten part of the drivability issue.
There is a part some call a "stove" to heat the choke spring on these old engines. (long story to explain how it works) I misunderstood you.
Never said it wouldn't drive. On a 390 it's a great plan. If your looking for real torque put what you have on a 390. It will flow that much. But I don't care what kind of math you use you will never get a mostly stock 360 to even come close to that much flow or perform like a 390. But of course you have proven it does. Good job!
I'm confused. I do have a 390. What is this heater stove? Is it the "control valve" (I forget the real name of it) on the drivers side exhaust that closes when cold to direct exhaust gas across the bottom of the intake via the heads? If so, the eldelbrok intake blocks these gasses anyway. If not, can ya help me here..) Heater stove has me a little confused.
[quote=Kennewick;8101230]"The POS heater stove"
Nothing to do with the choke??? It is the often forgotten part of the drivability issue. Your referring to the choke assist. It has been proven to be superior to electric choke but after 30+ years need serious attention. The differance is the time it takes for the choke to pull off. It takes about 5min for a engine to heat up with fast idle and that is about the time it takes the choke assisted system useing the manifold heat plenum to pull off the choke. Watch your electric choke it will pull off in less than a min. I switched to a electronic choke which also times out at about 4.5 to 5 min. Another driveability issue. But if all you do is drive from stop light to stop light with your foot mashed to the floor then who cares right. LOL!! Hey as long as it sounds cool.
Sorry, you are just plain wrong. Trust me here, I know how they both work. The electric/ electronic choke is adjustable more so than just bending a spring heated by convection. Or mayby I missed something after sixties technology, that others, even Ford grasped on before EFI, who knows. You missed the point again of the street light to street light build. A car was ment to be inferred, but the same for a light truck would work, I guess. High rpm, a little lower gear, a built system that can handle the torque\horsepower, not just mashing the pedal to sound cool. I have to ask, other than this site and your truck..how much exposure have you had to different type's of vehicles? Street stock and or stock? This is not a slam to you personaly, but before one talks of one thing being superior to another, one should have more info than just one example. Book knowledge count's for 1/4, experience 3/4..JMHO.
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+1 What works on the race track is useless on the street.
That depends.: Circle track, I agree. Where can one hold 100 or more mph for any lengh of time on the streets or back roads? A mild street light to street light engine build\setup works well. Leave em in the dust from a stand still and back off and smile when they catch up. Plus, the engine just sounds so cool...[/quote]
I'm old enough to remember when tunnel rams became the hot thing at the drag strip. I knew several morons than ran right out and bought and installed tunnel rams on their street engines. With dual 4 barrels, the things were total slugs. They then switched to a single 4 barrel and the engines were amazing between 6000 and 7000 rpm. Not worth a crap on the street otherwise. FYI, I do not believe Kennewick was speaking specifically of your build. But I know for a fact that the average DIY engine builder's biggest mistake is overcarburation.
I'm old enough to remember when tunnel rams became the hot thing at the drag strip. I knew several morons than ran right out and bought and installed tunnel rams on their street engines. With dual 4 barrels, the things were total slugs. They then switched to a single 4 barrel and the engines were amazing between 6000 and 7000 rpm. Not worth a crap on the street otherwise. FYI, I do not believe Kennewick was speaking specifically of your build. But I know for a fact that the average DIY engine builder's biggest mistake is overcarburation.[/quote]
ABSOLUTLEY!!!!!!! One cant put in what one cant get out. Tunnel ram on a street engine...I aint gonna school you, you been there and done that. I know what your saying here. Most install an intake, headers, double pump 750 and think they have a race car. That aint me. The quote was posted in my thread and mayby I took it wrong, wouldnt be the first time..My bad.
Bear, and others. Not to sound curse, I'm sure I've mis read most of the posts. I'll be straight. SBC, you can buy a dizzy, this P/N, which has AN ADJUSTABLE advance curve. It is adjustable via the vacuum port on the dizzy with a allen wrench. You can run a dual point Accell dizzy with no vacuum advance. I asked a question about the FE dizzy curve.... Any REAL answers?
Bear, and others. Not to sound curse, I'm sure I've mis read most of the posts. I'll be straight. SBC, you can buy a dizzy, this P/N, which has AN ADJUSTABLE advance curve. It is adjustable via the vacuum port on the dizzy with a allen wrench. You can run a dual point Accell dizzy with no vacuum advance. I asked a question about the FE dizzy curve.... Any REAL answers?
That only adjusts the vacuum advance curve. Not the mechanical advance curve. The mechanical advance curve is changed by using different springs and weights. I used to by those adjustable vacuum advance cans at auto parts stores.
I'm confused. I do have a 390. What is this heater stove? Is it the "control valve" (I forget the real name of it) on the drivers side exhaust that closes when cold to direct exhaust gas across the bottom of the intake via the heads? If so, the eldelbrok intake blocks these gasses anyway. If not, can ya help me here..) Heater stove has me a little confused.
My bad I thought you said 360. If you want to call me a rookie be my guest. But I stand behind every thing I have said. I won't waste my time with your other comment.
Glad you have all that experiance.
I'm confused. I do have a 390. What is this heater stove? Is it the "control valve" (I forget the real name of it) on the drivers side exhaust that closes when cold to direct exhaust gas across the bottom of the intake via the heads? If so, the eldelbrok intake blocks these gasses anyway. If not, can ya help me here..) Heater stove has me a little confused.
You don't have a stock air cleaner so it wouldn't matter anyway but here is a pic. The second pic is the air management system further along and the heater connection is the tube on the bottom. This one is not quite stock either as I am building a ram air induction out of it but the heater stove intake port is visable. Not a biggie but making it operational along with a delayed choke assist makes these okd trucks more streetable. At least with my limited knowledge I think so. Hey and I don't know much!!
You don't have a stock air cleaner so it wouldn't matter anyway but here is a pic. The second pic is the air management system further along and the heater connection is the tube on the bottom. This one is not quite stock either as I am building a ram air induction out of it but the heater stove intake port is visable. Not a biggie but making it operational along with a delayed choke assist makes these okd trucks more streetable. At least with my limited knowledge I think so. Hey and I don't know much!!
This is a joke, right? You do know that is not a "stove" or "choke assist". Do you even know how that circuit operates, and at what temp the valve open's up? You lectured me on performance and someone agreed with you.. And I listened...never mind. Like I said, I'm a dummy, and I dont lecture people on subjects that I just read about.
Let this post die please. If there is a moderator, I set my beer down..please kill this post.
I think putting your beer down is a good idea.
The pics are of the port that hooks up to the stove.(I mean real BASIC here) I don't have a pic of my manifold stove and because it is burried down on my manifold it whould be hard to take a photo of it. But you said you have all this experiance I assumed you could make the connection. I prolly didn't make myself clear. As for my choke assisted plenum not only did I abandon it but I also drilled it out from the inside and removed all the metal down to the manifold its self. Then I took the cover plate and had it welded on the service hole. It massively opened up the exhaust flow for #4 cylinder.(I mean it really made a big differance) Then I specificly ordered the electronic choke because of the timeing designed into it to coincide with the time it takes to warm the truck. I hope I have made myself clearer.
I would like to learn something from your experiance.
When you said low compression 390 I rang it up as a 360 my brain fart. But something about that. I reaserched the Cam timeing issue with those too. Part of the problem with smog 390's is that Ford fitted them with off set keyways on the crank time grear the same as they did on the 360's. They did the same on some 460's too. So if you remove your EGR say, it's a good idea to replace the timeset also to a straight up set. Other wise you can run into retarded cam timeing, spark knock issues and general crummy performance.
Anyway I hope you have a nice day and I am off to prison. The offenders I work with don't like to miss shop time. Hey peace brother Ford truck man! Sorry if I offened you.
Three separate cold driveability systems that are not directly related, but all work together. Lots of mixed up data.
First is the heated intake crossover. One of the factory exhaust manifolds has/had a thermostatically controlled butterfly valve that when cold directed the exhaust from that side through the intake passage to the other side. This served to warm the intake and improve warm up driving behavior. This system is not used on Eddelbrock heads, and is rendered less effective with headers since the valve is "gone". Truth be known the darn valves usually locked up & failed after a couple years anyways.
Next is that heated air intake in the pictures. A separate system for improving driving in colder weather. It had a completely separate thermostatic flapper that directed warmed air from alongside the exhaust manifold into the carburetor inlet. This system prevents carb icing, and will be in operation even after the engine gets warmed up if the inlet air temp is low. In later applications the flapper was vacuum controlled and tied to engine coolant temp with a manifold mounted vacuum switch.
Next is the hot air style choke. This used heated air from the exhaust manifold to open the choke by warming a bimetal spring in the choke cap. The heated air supply was drawn by engine vacuum through a tube feeding wrapping through the manifold and then back up to a clean air source - normally a nipple on the carb just below the air horn. This was not exhaust gas. The warm air supply continued during vehicle operation to keep the choke open. A similar system used in non-FE engines had the bimetal spring located in a well that was in the exhaust crossover passage. This was often referred to as a "choke stove".
Electric chokes came in as a means to simplify and better control choke operation. There are at least two versions of electric choke heaters, and a couple ways of managing electric choke operation. The most common aftermarket electric choke is a simple piezo "pill" style heater. It runs on 12 volts straight and stays powered up at all times. These tend to open too quickly in colder climates - but they're cheap and simple to install. Ford used a thermostatic heater choke that ran in concert with the hot air design - the electric portion ran on alternator stator voltage of +/- 7.5 volts, and thus opened a bit slower. The hot air portion was the same as before, and was used to keep the choke open. If the air supply failed the thermostatic style electric choke would also fail from overheating - that's why you see electric chokes with little brass screens over the vacuum/air supply opening on many Holleys.
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I agree with all said. I just didn't know it was going to take complete explanation of all of them. Nice descriptions though.
The heated air intake as pictured is rebuilt to mate to a ram air that I built. I made it mostly air tight to pressureize my intake when driving down the road but if the air is cold the flapper will open to the manifold stove which I have also made mostly air tight to control over cooling the intake air. I have a modified system not as well thought out now that works great so I made this one as a improvement. I got rid of the exhaust gas recirc because they always cob up and as stated replaced my original heated air choke assist with a electronic one useing the wire from the alternator. The timeing seems perfect. I get great idle, no stumble, great MPG for a 360 consistant 15mpg. Hey it works.
NOOO, It wasnt...I ran out. Barry_R said what I wanted to say..but I wasnt nice. I was pulling your chain. This was a after market question,(XE262H Cam ignition timing question) which is different than stock. Please read other posts of mine. I have the "cam kit" installed. I seeked advice, not schooling. I read your post then saw your stock breather hacked together (I thought it was a joke) ...well... have you ever read the issues with air flow over a carb with and without high performance breathers? I about crapped myself when I saw your "ram air" pictures. "It dont" work that way sir, flow dynamic's from a book be damned. A dyno comes to mind..As you stated earlier, I didnt think it needed explaining here, for knowledgeable people giving advice anyway.
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JMHO.
Circle track, I agree. Where can one hold 100 or more mph for any lengh of time on the streets or back roads? A mild street light to street light engine build\setup works well. Leave em in the dust from a stand still and back off and smile when they catch up.
Plus, the engine just sounds so cool...[/quote] 
