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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-22-2009, 06:00 PM
aerocolorado aerocolorado is offline
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A4LD Rebuild - Opinions on Clutch Pack Reuse

Well, I've gone and done it....started a rebuild on my transmission. I've hit a snag right out of the box.

Background: I am the original owner of a '91 Aerostar 4.0 AWD with the 'beefier' version of the C3/A4LD. With the Low/Reverse clutch, my new stack of steels and frictions turn out the be shorter than the OEM stack. Shorter to the point I would have to buy a new top plate to bring it within specs. They are TransTec/Raybestos frictions from bulkpart.

The original stack is still well within specs, which call for a feeler gauge reading of between 1.3 and 2.0 mm between the top plate and the retaining snap ring. The originals come in at 1.6 mm. The new stack is 2.19mm....well over the limit.

Here's the kicker: this transmission has 285,000 miles on it! Yes, I do take good care of it. Visually, there is no evidence of burnt plates and the old and new plates measure nearly identical. The old steels, though polished smooth, are just ever so slightly thicker than the new plates.

Question: Have you/would you reuse the original stack in this case? Any opinions would be appreciated.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:33 PM
Bear River Bear River is offline
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My advise is to not to. the old ones may be within specs, but if they have been heat stressed or glazed, they will not work like they should. However, i do not know how good of parts the Transtec parts are, so thats a hard call. I'm leaning towards the new ones.
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Old 09-23-2009, 10:31 AM
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Hi Dave,

I would reuse the old steel plates, but put in new clutch plates. That would probably bring it up to specs.

By the way, you are supposed to immerse the new clutch plates in ATF overnight before assembly.

Good luck and have fun.
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:33 PM
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96_4wdr 96_4wdr is offline
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something funny there with those parts Aero? sure they didn't send the 0.075" frictions for the older 1980s A4LD? that would add up to 0.036" additional thickness for total frictions, about what you're over with the new pack of frictions/steels.

the OEM 90>96 steels are 0.065" thick F0TZ-7B442B 6 in clutch pack

the OEM 85>89 steels are 0.068" thick D8ZZ-7B442B 5 in pack

the OEM '97 on steels are 0.082" thick F77Z-7B442AA 4>6 in pack depending on app.

the OEM 90>96 frictions are 0.069" thick F0TZ-7B164B 6 in clutch pack

the older 80s A4LD also used a pressure backing plate 0.020" thicker than the 90 and newer

if you have to, reuse the old steels after checking all for correct thickness and flatness and no wear grooving. replace the old frictions, they get small stress fractures that are not visible.

260K + miles, you got all the goody out of them.
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Old 09-30-2009, 02:57 PM
aerocolorado aerocolorado is offline
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Thanks Cliff,
I found out after the fact there are indeed different thicknessess for the steels as you note. I relied on what I felt was a reputable parts house. There was no mention of any choices, just a 'one-size-fits-all' rebuild package. I have since learned the AWD tranny is significantly stronger than those behind other engines, hence the need for different internals. Yeah, 0.065 vs 0.068 steels don't seem like much until you stack them all up.

I wound up using the new frictions and old steels. They were all still measuring at 0.067+/-. They also fit the clutch drum better than the new ones and they were notched to provide oil flow to the bottom bushing-something the new ones lacked.

These A4LD trannies get an undeserved bad rep. After 268,000 miles, I found only one thrust washer that needed replacement. The other washers just had minor scuffing but would easily last another 100,000 miles. The bands and frictions had almost no wear when compared to the new bands/frictions. Needless to say, I am most impressed by this transmission design.

As a side note, from all my research, it appears the A4LD reached its finest/strongest permutation behind the 4.0L in the 1995/96 AWD versions. These had all the durability refinements by that time.
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Old 09-30-2009, 05:18 PM
xlt4wd90 xlt4wd90 is offline
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This reminds me when I was rebuilding a Ford Equa-Lok differential (2 pinions instead of the 4 in the Traction-Loc) many years ago. I bought the clutch/steel replacement pack from my local Ford dealer, and when I assembled them, they were too thick to go back into the diff case. I checked again with the dealer, and the parts guy swore that there was only one available set. Maybe he was wrong.

Cliff, I wonder if your transmission is in such good shape after so many miles because you just took much better care of it than the average driver? When I got my 1990 AWD, the ATF was dark brown. I changed what I could (didn't know about the gentle flush thing at the time), but it was still brown, so I did it again a little later. Now I have Mobil 1 and the aftermarket cooler, so I'm sure the ATF is having an easier life, but I do wonder what kind of damage it sustained in its first 4 years with the original owner. It's too bad that Ford stopped building these things right after they sorted out most of their problems.

As another note, one of my friends has a relatively recent Ford Contour. Driving up the Grapevine during a hot summer day, it puked ATF all over the engine compartment, making smoke as it hit the exhaust manifold. The transmission's vent tube was located near the engine, and obviously the transmission got overheated. But this was a relatively new car, carrying a couple of passengers, and doing something that thousands of other cars were doing at the time. Something wasn't right; it shouldn't have overheated like that.
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Old 09-30-2009, 05:40 PM
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they probably sent you the E kit instead of the G kit for the 90>95
i like the thin steels and frictions, can usually stack in 1 more than the thick ones.

even the 95 and 96 had their weaknesses.
boost valve bore wear and weak spring, same as earlier A4s
EPC valve in VB, wears out and causes erratic line pressures. aftermarket replacement is $200, FoMoCo is $400
weak leaky VB gasket.

was going to mention upgrading to the largest servo pistons avail for the A4LD, give much more positive band shifts and little to no slippage towing with the high torque 4L we have but you had already bought and installed your parts.
Piston, Interm & OD Servo (2.317” ID Cover # ZC)

would suggest staying away from the carbon fiber bands, neck snappers and parts breakers met for the 1/8 mile guys.

yup, totally agree AC, the A4LD built for the 4L is one tough auto if driven and maintained reasonably. they love their ATF changes, i'd never put run of the mill mineral oil ATF in one again. mine loves the Mobil 1 stuff and it lasts as long as three changes of the cheap stuff.

starting in 93 is when they changed the rest of the thrust bushings over to Torrington roller bearings.

http://www.transtar1.com/catDownload.asp?ID=721
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Old 09-30-2009, 05:58 PM
aerocolorado aerocolorado is offline
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Cliff,

A little test of your extensive knowledge. The 90-91's used a double wrap OD band that is no longer available. I bought the replacement band and strut/actuator - which are the same parts as the intermediate band/strut.

The double wrap adjuster was backed out 3.5 turns from snug and the intermediate 2 turns. Should the replacement OD band be backed out 3.5 or 2 turns? I cannot seem to find a definitive answer to this question.
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Old 09-30-2009, 07:23 PM
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i would go with the 2 turns back out from snug with the single band
how is it shifting now in and out of OD?

sounds like some parts house was cleaning out their sweeping bin?
the double wrap is avail from Transtar. may have to go thru a parts retailer
Intermediate (Double Wrap)............................................. ........................................... 1 91-92 56022EA 27320J

and the correct deluxe super kit is:
A4LD (4wd w/ One Each Single Wrap & Double Wrap Band)....................................... 1 90-91 56008GC

can use the double wrap 27320J on both the OD and interm. bands. kevlars are the best for toughness and long life

the G kit has the thin steels and frictions.
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Old 09-30-2009, 07:38 PM
aerocolorado aerocolorado is offline
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OD is/has been shifting in/out just fine. The double wrap OD and intermediate band are both the same width/length, which I assume is why they can be interchanged. So, that being the case, it made me curious as to why the dual wrap would back off 3.5 turns on the same length of band as the intermediate. The intermediate actually looks stronger than the the double wrap. (Double wrap is a misnomer, there are not two bands, just a single band with the middle section removed, leaving....two band strips.)

bulkpart (Mayko) has the double listed but with a disclaimer saying this has been discontinued by Ford and is no longer available. Another tranny forum concurs so who really knows at this point? I used bulkparts for my son's Contour tranny and was satisfied with their parts and service. Sounds like Transtar may have been a better bet. bulkpart is okay but their descriptions leave a lot to be desired. Getting exactly the right part you need is often a shot in the dark with them.

The clutches are all rebuilt at this point. As always, there are a few last minute parts to be chased down. By Saturday, I should have everything needed to start the reassebly process.

BTW: For anyone reading this. Don't buy the ATSG manual, its just a direct copy out of the Ford factory service manual with nothing extra for $25!
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Old 09-30-2009, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlt4wd90 View Post
As another note, one of my friends has a relatively recent Ford Contour. Driving up the Grapevine during a hot summer day, it puked ATF all over the engine compartment, making smoke as it hit the exhaust manifold. The transmission's vent tube was located near the engine, and obviously the transmission got overheated. But this was a relatively new car, carrying a couple of passengers, and doing something that thousands of other cars were doing at the time. Something wasn't right; it shouldn't have overheated like that.
The CD4E tranny in the Contour/Mystique is one of the worst trannies ever made. They have issues with internal parts breaking away from the transmision, blowing holes in the side, and runaway line pressure. They are a very light tranny, and a fully loaded car will tax it beyond it's limits.
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Old 10-17-2009, 03:27 AM
wvcornbread wvcornbread is offline
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1992 ranger A4ld

I am having a problem my transmission wants to go forward will not go into reverse i have did the shift cable adjustments checked the fluid and adjusted the bands it hits all the gears in forward gears but wants to go forward in reverse does any one know what else would cause this
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Old 10-17-2009, 09:28 AM
aerocolorado aerocolorado is offline
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Cornbread.... welcome to the FTE forum.

From a former WV "hick" to another (I say this with great admiration for my home state, not derisively), I would surmise your problem lies in either the small internal linkage connecting the shifter to the valve body (the notorious 'Z' link) or in the valve body itself. The connection point of the Z link to the main valve body wears an oblong hole. If severe enough, the main shuttle valve winds up residing between two valve openings and hydraulic pressure tries to operate both gear selections. Whichever has the most pressure wins, which is probably why the truck want to go forward when the selector says reverse.

The second condition would be jammed valve(s) within the valve body. This would cause a similar situation. Valve partially opened creates hydraulic pressure elsewhere and again, conflicting results.

Both can be fixed but require removal of the valve body from the transmission. This can be done without pulling the entire transmission. There are kits to rebuild the valve body or you can buy rebuilt ones. Worn Z links can be easily fixed with a simple sleeve repair from Sonnax but again, the valve body needs loosened/removed to affect this repair.
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Old 10-17-2009, 10:46 AM
aerocolorado aerocolorado is offline
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Too late to edit the above entry, but here is a link to a good discussion on your problem:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/26...problem-2.html
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Old 10-17-2009, 11:17 PM
wvcornbread wvcornbread is offline
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thanks for all your help it is grately appriceated wv corn bread
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Old 10-17-2009, 11:17 PM
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