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  #16  
Old 09-22-2009, 10:02 AM
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There is no power advantage to either firing order on a low rpm truck engine.
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Paul (Conan) O'Brien

1990 5.0HO AOD XLT X-Cab F150 3.55LS, 1994 3.0L 5-sp x-cab Ranger 3.45, 2004 3.0L 5-sp X-cab Ranger Edge 4.10, 2004 2.5L 5-spd Subaru Legacy
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  #17  
Old 09-23-2009, 05:04 PM
86stepsideF150 86stepsideF150 is offline
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Okay, thank you. I hope to order parts soon!

I need to order a header gasket/bolt set. Do I have rectangular or oval exhaust ports?

What lifters should I use with the Comp Cam? It would make sense to me to stay brand consistent and go with Comp Cam lifters, is that necessary? They are hydraulic flat tappets, correct?
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1986 Ford F150 Flare-Side. Two tone gray/gray, red interior, cruise, pwr windows, pwr locks, heat, A/C, 302 EFI, AOD, 3.55:1 gears, 4x4, Dana 44 front, 8.8 rear. Upgrades: Headers, duals with glasspacks. Stereo & speakers, tow hitch, tow hooks, 31" tires, 16" Cragar black steelies.
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  #18  
Old 09-23-2009, 10:12 PM
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Get a cam and lifter kit.. usually better value.
Head ports are rectangular.
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1990 5.0HO AOD XLT X-Cab F150 3.55LS, 1994 3.0L 5-sp x-cab Ranger 3.45, 2004 3.0L 5-sp X-cab Ranger Edge 4.10, 2004 2.5L 5-spd Subaru Legacy
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  #19  
Old 09-23-2009, 10:51 PM
86stepsideF150 86stepsideF150 is offline
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Yea, I would get a cam and lifter kit package, but Comp Cams does not have a kit with the camshaft that I want. But wow, I could save a whole lot ($180 vs. $360!!) if I got this cam and lifter kit with a very similar cam... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-CL31-230-3/
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1986 Ford F150 Flare-Side. Two tone gray/gray, red interior, cruise, pwr windows, pwr locks, heat, A/C, 302 EFI, AOD, 3.55:1 gears, 4x4, Dana 44 front, 8.8 rear. Upgrades: Headers, duals with glasspacks. Stereo & speakers, tow hitch, tow hooks, 31" tires, 16" Cragar black steelies.
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  #20  
Old 09-23-2009, 10:57 PM
86stepsideF150 86stepsideF150 is offline
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Actually $185 vs. $260. Still a huge savings, but we already talked about that cam and established that it probably wouldn't work well with the computer.
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  #21  
Old 09-24-2009, 12:36 AM
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I popped back into this forum after a long layoff and saw your post. If I was you I wouldn't worry about the lower end to much. Just pull the motor and put new bearings in the bottom end. You don't need to remove the pistons to do this, and I strongly recommend you don't . Just take one cap off at a time, main or rod, and change the bearing ( please make sure you lube it before putting it the new bearing back in the cap.) On the main bearings look at the key and just push on the other side of the bearing with a blade screw driver. Be careful to not hit the crank and you will be fine. If you want the best you can replace the main cap bolts with studs and put a girdle and windage tray on it.

If you are interested there is a great book called "The Unfair Advantage" that is written by Mark Donohue before he crashed and burned. He says that he and Penske would make the bottom end of their motors and put a stock top end on it. This motor would then go in something like his mothers car. She would drive it for many thousands of miles and then they would pull it. Put the race top end on it and win. This is what you have in your engine. The only problem is with the wear on the bearings. Once those are replaced you return the the oil clearances to the proper amount and you are off to the races.

Another book that is of interest is by Jackie Stewart call "Faster." Read this book if you want to find out what it's like to crash at over 200 miles per hour.
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  #22  
Old 09-24-2009, 01:09 AM
86stepsideF150 86stepsideF150 is offline
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That sounds very interesting, but I'm not intending to race the truck, I just want a little more grunt out of my driver. If the whole point of the story you mentioned was to have a worn in/broken in loose lower end, then my engine should be just that with 100,000 miles. Perfect, I should have a nice loose, but strong lower end. So, why replace the main bearings?
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  #23  
Old 09-24-2009, 10:48 AM
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NO... you don't ever replace the bearings in a worn engine without machine work, that's a guaranteed engine seizure in a very short time. The rod ends become egg shaped over time and the bearings wear to match this shape, new bearings produce pinch areas that don't have the proper clearances, the only way to avoid this is to have the big end of the rods trued and that means an engine teardown. If your oil pressure is good leave it alone.
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1990 5.0HO AOD XLT X-Cab F150 3.55LS, 1994 3.0L 5-sp x-cab Ranger 3.45, 2004 3.0L 5-sp X-cab Ranger Edge 4.10, 2004 2.5L 5-spd Subaru Legacy
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  #24  
Old 09-24-2009, 12:55 PM
86stepsideF150 86stepsideF150 is offline
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That's exactly the impression I was under, thank you. Yes, the oil pressure is adequate.
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1986 Ford F150 Flare-Side. Two tone gray/gray, red interior, cruise, pwr windows, pwr locks, heat, A/C, 302 EFI, AOD, 3.55:1 gears, 4x4, Dana 44 front, 8.8 rear. Upgrades: Headers, duals with glasspacks. Stereo & speakers, tow hitch, tow hooks, 31" tires, 16" Cragar black steelies.
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  #25  
Old 09-24-2009, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conanski View Post
There is no power advantage to either firing order on a low rpm truck engine.
I have to disagree with you on that statement... Infact, Ford did just that, gaining HP and TQ in there 82 302 5.0 engines offered in the GT Mustangs. Redline was 5500 or so?? pretty low campared to the 289's of the 60's.
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  #26  
Old 09-24-2009, 11:13 PM
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My Opinion is, if your gonna build a 302, You better do a quick inspection of the bottom end. If wear is noticed on any bearings down there, Machine work is necessary, at any rate, if your not gonna inspect the bearings, at very least a high vol oil pump is recomended.

Honestly, a 302 block is not all that strong. I have cracked the blocks many times. The cracks always happen in the valley between the lifters, they sell a girdle to go in there, The other place I have cracked the block, is the back half just below the water Jackets, the whole bottom half will fail.

If you only gonna put 400 hp or so threw it, at least bolster the valley, One hookup, and it could be over.

Roller cams are great because they take less energy to rotate, and also wear less, and less friction means less heat.
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  #27  
Old 09-25-2009, 12:24 AM
86stepsideF150 86stepsideF150 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang6147 View Post
My Opinion is, if your gonna build a 302, You better do a quick inspection of the bottom end. If wear is noticed on any bearings down there, Machine work is necessary, at any rate, if your not gonna inspect the bearings, at very least a high vol oil pump is recomended.

Honestly, a 302 block is not all that strong. I have cracked the blocks many times. The cracks always happen in the valley between the lifters, they sell a girdle to go in there, The other place I have cracked the block, is the back half just below the water Jackets, the whole bottom half will fail.

If you only gonna put 400 hp or so threw it, at least bolster the valley, One hookup, and it could be over.

Roller cams are great because they take less energy to rotate, and also wear less, and less friction means less heat.
Woah! 400hp.. I'm only talking about 250 hp and 350 lbs of torque op from the stock 185hp/270lbs. Not a huge increase. The stock 302 with 100,000 mile internals should support what I'm doing. I'm only swapping the cam. My oil pressure is adequate right now so I'm not worried about that.
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  #28  
Old 09-25-2009, 12:29 AM
86stepsideF150 86stepsideF150 is offline
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Maybe I should consider changing the firing order...? Conanski is saying that a mostly stock 250 hp engine that only revs to 4,000 maybe 4,200 rpms will not respond to a better firing order. Which makes sense - it's a low revving, and low power out-put truck engine. But, if it is a better firing order, I understand the argument that it would be advantageous, and could possibly free up a couple extra ponies...
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  #29  
Old 09-25-2009, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang6147 View Post
I have to disagree with you on that statement... Infact, Ford did just that, gaining HP and TQ in there 82 302 5.0 engines offered in the GT Mustangs. Redline was 5500 or so?? pretty low campared to the 289's of the 60's.
'82 302 mustang motor made 150hp.. roughly 1/2 what an HP289 made in the '60's... that doesn't seem to be proving your point very well.
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1990 5.0HO AOD XLT X-Cab F150 3.55LS, 1994 3.0L 5-sp x-cab Ranger 3.45, 2004 3.0L 5-sp X-cab Ranger Edge 4.10, 2004 2.5L 5-spd Subaru Legacy
1996 Kawasaki ZX11D, 2004 Honda 599, 2008 Kawasaki KLR650
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  #30  
Old 09-28-2009, 02:46 PM
86stepsideF150 86stepsideF150 is offline
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I just got a pair of Flowtech headers for my truck off a guy on CL. Got em used for 20 bucks! They had a little rust and some spider webs, but a little sanding and high temp paint made them like new! I also got my new water pump and installed it.

I decided to hold off on the cam, lifters and timing chain/gear set. I need new hardware and gaskets for these headers and some exhaust plumbing to attach them to my current system. I also should install some new radiator hoses and I need to reseal my valve covers. Ever since I put chrome valve covers on it they wouldn't seal right. I'm going to take my time and remove the upper intake plenum and use a little RTV this time. So, all this other stuff is going to set me back a few bucks and I'll need to put the power adders on hold.
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Old 09-28-2009, 02:46 PM
 
 
 
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