but its not right for members to be mislead and hosed either, especially from a sponsor!!
Agreed, and this has always been one of my pet peeves with ALL the forums. It's not just an FTE exclusive thing. Just because you pay your money to sell your product doesn't mean you should get immunity for selling a BAD product. That's like giving someone a license to steal and I don't think the owners of this site would want to participate in anything like that. In a "public" forum you have to be willing to take the bad with the good. Jeff (Beachbumcook) has been across this rickity little bridge before and survived. I applaud him for sticking to his guns.
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Agreed, and this has always been one of my pet peeves with ALL the forums. It's not just an FTE exclusive thing. Just because you pay your money to sell your product doesn't mean you should get immunity for selling a BAD product. In a "public" forum you have to be willing to take the bad with the good.
I agree 110%
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Please read what I have said and take it from there..
I wasn't trying to contradict what you said. While there are still issues with this thread, I was just saying that this was actually one of the more restrained threads on the subject. I have seen and been apart of even more "volatile" threads on this same subject.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sglaine
What I am getting at is that I see BS in this thread and does that mean my opinion is correct? No.
If you're seeing BS and your addressing said BS, then it's not really opinion in the technical sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sglaine
But the respect that I have seen towards a someone that pays money to this site...and Helps keeps the site going for us is not right on some of the members
That is borderline on a logical fallacy. There are paid supporters of this site that I wouldn't trust to tell me that it feels like a fall day here today(it's 71 for the high here) and there are some that aren't paid supporters that I would trust with the well-being of my truck. The mere fact that they are a paying or not a paying member of this site doesn't mean one thing or another to this or any thread. It's the substance of what they say that counts.
On in internet site especially respect has to be earned, not freely given. They have to establish their bona fides based on substance, not payment of membership dues.
Otherwise, if respect is based on membership dues then I'm just SOL in the respect department since I'm not a paying member.
I wasn't trying to contradict what you said. While there are still issues with this thread, I was just saying that this was actually one of the more restrained threads on the subject. I have seen and been apart of even more "volatile" threads on this same subject.
If you're seeing BS and your addressing said BS, then it's not really opinion in the technical sense.
That is borderline on a logical fallacy. There are paid supporters of this site that I wouldn't trust to tell me that it feels like a fall day here today(it's 71 for the high here) and there are some that aren't paid supporters that I would trust with the well-being of my truck. The mere fact that they are a paying or not a paying member of this site doesn't mean one thing or another to this or any thread. It's the substance of what they say that counts.
On in internet site especially respect has to be earned, not freely given. They have to establish their bona fides based on substance, not payment of membership dues.
Otherwise, if respect is based on membership dues then I'm just SOL in the respect department since I'm not a paying member.
Please read my post carefully..I think you missed a few points there..
If you disagree with a Vendor maybe a PM to them and see if they explain back to you helps.
I am not changing my Oil in my Trucks at all because of this Ad..I can See through it..
I have owned many trucks in my Day Big and Small..And I am not about to Bash the Vendor ..
I just choose to keep what I have and trust for years...
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Please read my post carefully..I think you missed a few points there..
I think it's actually going to be better if you tell me what you points are very explicitly that way I'm not committing any fallacies by assuming what I think you mean. Evidently I must have done that the first go round since you are posting this comment, so I want to avoid that the second go round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sglaine
If you disagree with a Vendor maybe a PM to them and see if they explain back to you helps.
PM, email, posts on here have yielding the same results for me. That is why I have the frustration that I do. Don't assume that I have or haven't done things to try to be as fair as I can be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sglaine
I have owned many trucks in my Day Big and Small..And I am not about to Bash the Vendor ..
This is far from bashing in this thread specifically, if you think this is bashing I would hate to see what you think of real bashing.
Being a vendor, paid member, sponsor whatever does not give them a free pass to get people to go against logical thinking.
Unfortunately, unless you have people that question openly and try to get the "vendor" to show proof of their claims people will get duped. I'm not saying that that will happen with this product or not, I'm trying to get them to live up to what they are claiming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sglaine
I just choose to keep what I have and trust for years...
That can be a logical fallacy as well. If you chose to keep something based solely on the fact that you've been using it for yrs and you trust it, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use something new if it's better. I'm not saying that this is it, but that doesn't mean that something won't or hasn't come along that is better then what you've used for yrs and trusted.
The irony is, people on here won't know if it good or not unless other people as the hard questions or as you seem to think "bash" the vendor(or that is atleast how you are describing what you think of what is going on based on your posts, but I'm sure I'm missing a few more points in your posts, so I'm sure you'll set me straight after while).
This particular vendor has been bashed and challenged in this forum. To date I (FWIW) have not seen any verifiable, or properly evaluated, evidence of the performance of the product being presented. I am speaking of the performance of this particular product in the 6.0.
Jeff, AKA Beachbumcook, stepped up to the plate and presented an honest challenge to this vendor. I would like to see this challenge come to fruition and then we can all witness and digest the results. If the product passes muster then I'll purchase it myself! If not..... then it's up to each individual to decide on how/where their money is spent.
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I'm right behind you Kep. Only problem is I don't see it coming to fruition based on one past experience. Kep, you and slowman might remember this, but there was a time that Chris said that he was going to send some stuff off to tested in a 6.0 and then have it evaluated and then post the final results of that on here. To date I have yet to "hear" what happened to that. Now this all goes to how they handle the public here in the forum and this just adds to the frustration. I do believe that there are some that are on the fence of trying one of their products(maybe not this one, but another one), but they are waiting some type of verification and they say that they will deliver some that speak specifically to the 6.0 owning crowd and I have yet to see any such thing being presented. Now I understand, as a business owner myself, that time gets away from you, but this goes into how one markets there product and if you truly want to have good things being said about ones service and/or product you need to deliver on what you say you are going to deliver.
Since it's been a good long while on that, I tend to doubt that they will respond to this challenge if they haven't already unsubscribed from the thread and hoping for this to blow over. If I had people that were in a "heated" discussion over my services(I don't truly provide products, but services) I wouldn't leave to let it go as long as they have hoping it will blow over. There are legitimate concerns from people on here that need to be addressed in the public venue.
Lubrication Specialtie's oil is a CI4+ rated oil (per their website).
I am not sure if their oil actually carries the API symbol or they are just claiming that theit oil meets the CI4+ rating (old spec by the way since CJ4 is the newest API specification for diesel motors (new and old motors that is).
The link below, from the API website clearly shows and states what is different and how and why an oil with a CJ4 rating is supperior!!!!!
So... I am not sure how and why Lubrication Specialties would choose to promote, let alone sell an "old spec'd" oil??????
Every major oil manufacture (Mobil, Shell, Citgo, Valvoline and many others) all produce oils (dino and synthetic) with the API service rating of CJ4... which is proven to be a BETTER oil formulation.
3. How does the performance of API CJ-4 oils differ from previous categories
like API CI-4 or API CI-4 PLUS?
API CJ-4 oils have additive systems specially designed to improve the protection of both the engine power system and advanced emissions control systems like DPFs. Use of these new oils will help maintain the life of the emission control system as required for regulatory compliance. API CJ-4 oils are formulated for improved wear protection, deposit and oil consumption control, soot-related viscosity control, prevention of viscosity loss from shearing, used oil low-temperature pumpability, and protection from thermal and oxidative breakdown when compared to previous API performance categories.
6. Do API CJ-4 oils protect older engines as well as API CI-4 or API CI-4 PLUS oils?
Yes, API CJ-4 oils are designed for use in new engines as well as the existing on-highway fleets. API CJ-4 oils are qualified utilizing several new engine tests that are more severe than those used for API CI-4 or API CI-4 PLUS oils thus defining a new category of oils with much more robust performance than previous categories. API CJ-4 oils are formulated for improved wear protection, deposit and oil consumption control, soot-related viscosity control, prevention of viscosity loss from shearing, used oil low-temperature pumpability, and protection from thermal and oxidative breakdown when compared to previous API performance categories. As always, users should seek guidance from their engine or vehicle manufacturer regarding specific service recommendations.
The chart image below shows the graphical differences (improvements) between Ci4+ and CJ4 rated diesel motor oil.
The statement below is from API site (what makes CJ4 rated oils better):
So... I am not sure how and why Lubrication Specialties would choose to promote, let alone sell an "old spec'd" oil??????
This does reconcile while I was noting that the 6.4 crowd was lucky and not having to deal with this, while it was coming in on the general diesel and 6.0 forums.
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