100K oil change challenge

[06silvercrew]

Bluetooth type technology is pefectaly capable, I use it on a daily basis with GM SPS etc. Thats GM's prefered method, and the ONLY method on 2010's

[tex25025]

Originally Posted by 06silvercrew

Bluetooth type technology is pefectaly capable, I use it on a daily basis with GM SPS etc. Thats GM's prefered method, and the ONLY method on 2010's

That's strange. Then why can't I pull Timing and pulse width on the 6.0 using autoenginuity's software? A failing of the software?

[06silvercrew]

That would be my "guess" but I know nothing about the autoenginuity. When Gm first started doing this, it was a nightmare, they had trouble after trouble getting all the PID's to communicate, but they have pretty much got it all sorted out. Unfortunatley, I cant offer any other insight as I.T is not one of my strong points lol

[Lead Head]

Originally Posted by tex25025

I'm afraid not. You are forgetting that some sensors, pulse width and injector timing are constantly sending signals, constantly changing depending on the demands that the driver is putting on the throttle.

You have two issues with bluetooth as it relates to sensors.

1. Is density of information of some of those sensors

2. The speed in which those sensors are reporting it in.

Autoenginuity still has problems of some of their sensors working on their bluetooth modules and they have been using bluetooth for atleast as long as I've been using their software and they still have those issues.

Think of it this way, if all the sensors were like ECT, EOT or TFT where their signals aren't really changing at a quick rate, then your right it's fine and it does work on those. Injection timing and pulse width are constantly changing numbers, it's not that it can't support the data readout, it's how quickly and how dense some of those readings are. This doesn't affect all of the sensors, but it does affect some. Some are very helpful in diagnosing issues, but not exactly needed for day to day sensor monitoring.

Your post is not making much sense to me. The OBD-II module you plug is not actually physically sending a bunch individual sensor signals to the touch screen. Its essentially wrapping all the ODB-II data up into a wireless carrier. But once again, any and all sensor values are just numbers. The scanner is not actually calculating the injection pulserate - the computer is telling it what it is commanding the injectors to do. The trucks computer takes all data, and wraps it into whatever communication protocol Ford chose, and sends it on its way to the obd-ii port in the form of integers (groups of numbers without decimal points or fractions). The scanner then looks at each integer, figures out what its representing by its PID, converts it to the proper measure, ex degrees, RPM, injector duty cycle in %, whatever, and sticks a label on it.

Just think about it, bluetooth can sustain a two way audio conversation in real time. Sony and Nintendo use it for the the PlayStation 3 and the Wii for their wireless controllers - and all them hardcore video gamers expect instant responses from their button presses. (actually this probably works very similar to the automotive bluetooth scan tools, a PID is assigned to a certain button or lever, and the controller sends the PID and a set of integers back to the game console, and the console figures it out from there)

Any lack of features is a software or hardware issue - not a lack of capability of the protocol.

[06silvercrew]

Originally Posted by Lead Head

Your post is not making much sense to me. The OBD-II module you plug is not actually physically sending a bunch individual sensor signals to the touch screen. Its essentially wrapping all the ODB-II data up into a wireless carrier. But once again, any and all sensor values are just numbers. The scanner is not actually calculating the injection pulserate - the computer is telling it what it is commanding the injectors to do. The trucks computer takes all data, and wraps it into whatever communication protocol Ford chose, and sends it on its way to the obd-ii port in the form of integers (groups of numbers without decimal points or fractions). The scanner then looks at each integer, figures out what its representing by its PID, converts it to the proper measure, ex degrees, RPM, injector duty cycle in %, whatever, and sticks a label on it.

Just think about it, bluetooth can sustain a two way audio conversation in real time. Sony and Nintendo use it for the the PlayStation 3 and the Wii for their wireless controllers - and all them hardcore video gamers expect instant responses from their button presses. (actually this probably works very similar to the automotive bluetooth scan tools, a PID is assigned to a certain button or lever, and the controller sends the PID and a set of integers back to the game console, and the console figures it out from there)

Any lack of features is a software or hardware issue - not a lack of capability of the protocol.

You just put into words what my bird brain wanted too but was too lazy to at this hour. All the sensor data is collected in the PCM, translated into a binary code then sent via class 2, hs lan, ls lan, can (depending on applicaiton protocall) to the OBD connector.

[tex25025]

Originally Posted by Lead Head

Any lack of features is a software or hardware issue - not a lack of capability of the protocol.

It is starting to sound like it. I guess I just found it hard to believe that after a couple of yrs they couldn't get their software right. The hardwire version works perfectly which is way I tend it use it more then bluetooth unless I need to use the PPC to do my diagnostics with.

[KRDiesel]

Originally Posted by tex25025

The irony is I think at one time they actually had a testimonial from him on their website. I don't know if he had them withdraw it after the KW incident or if it's still there, but I thought that was kinda ironic.

However, I think that what supertruck60 is doing is actually doing more harm then good for the products that he is hocking. His approach is all wrong, and Chris isn't clean either in his approach all the time, but his much better then supertruck. Totally take out rather or not the product is good or not, how supertruck60 is approaching the marketing of the product needs to be re-thought.

I know I dread looking at some turbo/injector threads because I'm afraid I'm going to find a post about HSS that is nothing but an ad that relates a paper thin connection between someone using HSS to help injectors and due to the timing of use and a noticed difference in turbo behavior(an improvement) supertruck60 is ready to say give HSS a shot to help your turbo issues as well, but gives no indepth insight as to why it might help(alteast none that I've seen). Or gives help period that doesn't include hocking a product. In my humble(but all knowing) opinion, I just think they need to either change tact, or change the messenger.

I will agree that they need to work on marketing. I know through testing that HSS will work for stiction issues. Turbo, EGR, other injector, and so on, I have no idea, and I cannot see how it could help. Well if the turbo bearings were coked, but if they were that bad in the first place!

[KRDiesel]

Maximum Bus Speed
The maximum speed of a CAN bus, according to the standard, is 1 Mbit/second. Some CAN controllers will nevertheless handle higher speeds than 1Mbit/s and may be considered for special applications.

[Kep4]

At least this thread morphed into something interesting!

[Chris Gabe]

It is good to see everyone is so excited about oil. Dan emailed me and asked me to jump in with some input so here goes:

We are not marketing gurus but our products need a lot of explanation so this forum and others are the best way to do that.

People do read these blogs and get answers. They do call me everyday and say that they got the information they needed by reading this blog.

We sponsor this forum because we can introduce products and then talk about them. I think Dan does a great job of explaining what they do and how they work. This sparks conversation which in turn sparks questions and answers. You can't do that with an ad. We have started radio commercials and as soon as we have the money we will have a radio call in program.
So don’t be so hard on our marketing efforts. We are making headway and moving forward.
As far as extended drains: Regular mineral oil do shear but a 12 carbon chain group IV doesn't. You want to look for the ASTM D943 test. That is also called the toast test. It measures an oils ability to not oxidize. The base we are using made it 40,000 hours. It won't sear.
Yes the testimonial we are using is an over the road tractor. That's what we have so far. I have several people doing the same thing with the 6.0. They just don't have the miles on yet. As soon as they do I will add them to that page.

Filtration does play a part in the oils ability to hold up. Keeping out the soot will give the oil additives an opportunity to hang in there. As the soot builds the additives will fight it, deplete and allow the oil to go south.
So it is a comprehensive effort. The Blue Diamond or the Primrose 791 will not wear out or shear. It will get dirty in about 20,000 miles. It will loose it's additives at 50,000 to 75,000 miles. We do have an additive to add to the oil when we see that happening. It is not expensive but it is very effective. Part of what we do is monitor the whole process with our clients. We don't just leave you blowing out in the wind. The Ford 6.0 needs a little extra care and that's what we specialize in. In our field we are offering the best products available and we are saving our clients thousands of dollars. The people that use us are very satisfied not only with the products but the fact that we work with them to fix their problems.

Keep up the good discussion!
Chris

[KRDiesel]

Thanks Chris. Do you have a white paper on 12 chain oil that we can read?

[zhilton]

Originally Posted by Beachbumcook

There is a big difference between a class 8 truck (big rig) going 100,000 miles and our much smaller 6.0L Powerstrokes.

The issue is not about how clean the oil is or can be made, but about it shearing down (low viscosity) which happens with every single oil that is used in the 6.0L injection and luve system.

The motor oil is used differently in ou 6.0L motors than in a class 8 truck (ours uses the oil to fire the injectors... which shears down the oil)!!!

Granted I haven't worked for Caterpillar in almost 5 years now...but isn't the fuel injector system on the 6.0 a HUEI type system? If so, the oil in any Class 6, 7, or 8 truck powered by a Cat engine would shear the oil over time. Granted the oil pans hold somewhere in the neighborhood of 40-45 quarts (10-12 gallons)...the oil is still exposed to the same sheering in a C16 (600 Hp, 15.9L) as the 6.0; or at least that's how I look at it.

With that said, we never ran our trucks past 15k between oil changes. We did UOA at every servicing and since it was a dealership we were using Cat oil (repackaged Mobile) and filters. I'm sure there was something different about the oil because it looked dark straight out of the bottle/drum....but in the 650k I put on a C12 I never had injector or bearing issues; though I did granade a turbo...but that's another story.

[slowmans]

Originally Posted by KRDiesel

Thanks Chris. Do you have a white paper on 12 chain oil that we can read?

he probably doesnt , considering some of us are still waiting on the white paper from international about the HSS......

[KRDiesel]

The use of engine lubricants in both gasoline and diesel engines is well known. Historically, virtually all engine lubricants consisted primarily of refined hydrocarbon oils into which additive packages were blended to achieve improved properties and service life as necessary to achieve certification by organizations such as the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). In recent years, the use of synthetic lubricating oils for gasoline engines has become more widespread. Generally speaking, the cost of synthetic oils is greater than for conventional mineral oil lubricants but synthetic oils offer improved lubricity, lower oil consumption, better engine protection and longer service life for both the lubricating oil and the engines in which it is used. With increased emphasis on the use of synthetic oils and resultant competition among suppliers, several different types of synthetic lubricants have emerged, some of which perform only marginally better than lubricants have emerged, some of which perform only marginally better than conventional oils and may not provide long term savings that justify the higher initial cost.

Full synthetic oils consist primarily of high quality synthetic polyalphaolefin ("PAO") base stocks and are typically priced much higher than conventional engine lube oils. Synthetic oils are now recommended for use in some automotive engines, particularly in high performance engines and those in luxury automobiles. Generally speaking, synthetic oils are viewed as having improved lubricity and longer service life when compared to conventional motor oils. However, because PAO base stocks are significantly more expensive than refined mineral oils, many consumers have resisted switching to synthetic oils because of cost.

As a result of price sensitivity on the part of consumers, many producers of so-called "synthetic" oils now manufacture and market blends in which more highly refined mineral oils are used in place of most, and in some cases all, of the PAO. The percentage of synthetic base stock in blended synthetic oils (sometimes referred to as "partial" synthetics) can vary, for example, from as little as about three weight percent in the lower grades up to about 30 weight percent in higher grade products, sometimes referred to as "engineered blends." Such blends lack many of the improved properties previously associated with full synthetic oils containing a high percentage of PAO. Also, these lower grade "synthetic" lubricants may produce byproducts that foul or otherwise inhibit engine performance during use.

Beyond automotive use, the need for effective engine lubricants for diesel engines is also well known. Large diesel engines are widely used in various oilfield, industrial and transportation applications. Such engines are normally expected to remain in continuous or substantially continuous service for long periods, utilize heavier and more contaminated fuels than gasoline engines, and are frequently operated under heavy loads. In such use environments, lubricating oils that demonstrate great lubricity, long service life, lower oil consumption, better engine protection and overall cost effectiveness are often critical to the success of the related venture. Lubricity is necessary for achieving mechanical efficiency, reduced engine wear and longer intervals between major overhauls. Extended service life is desirable to reduce the out-of-service time, labor and material costs associated with oil changes. Also, by reducing the total volume of lubricating oil required to service an engine over an extended period, other cost efficiencies such as lower freight, handling and storage costs are achieved. Furthermore, longer service life, fewer oil changes and reduced transportation and handling all contribute to less worker exposure to health and safety risks, and less chance of accidental leakage or spills that can adversely affect the environment.

Lubricating oils consisting primarily of petroleum refined mineral oil and various additive packages are normally used in large diesel engines. Some synthetic oils have previously been disclosed and certified for diesel engines but their use has not become widespread. This is believed to be primarily attributable to the relatively large lubricant capacities associated with diesel engines that, when coupled with the higher selling price of synthetic lubricants, has previously been viewed as more than offsetting any related cost advantages in service life or performance. Many operators have failed, however, to fully appreciate all the costs associated with using inferior lubricants.

Diesel engines such as those used to power generators on offshore drilling platforms, for example, often have oil pans or sumps containing more than a hundred gallons of lubricating oil. Such engines are sometimes operated for 5,000 to 7,000 hours in a single year. When using a conventional lubricating oil consisting primarily of mineral oil, oil changes may be required as often as every 1,000 hours, and even more often where the diesel fuel contains more than about 0.5 weight percent sulfur or where impurities and additives in the oil contribute to the formation of sludge or acidic byproducts.

The acidity of a lubricating oil generally increases with extended use over time. As oils become more acidic, they can corrode engine parts, cause loss of power and increased repair costs. Lubricating oils typically have a total base number ("TBN") in the range of about 8 to 10 when placed in service and are changed whenever the TBN drops to about 3 or 4. Where operators fail to maintain rigorous maintenance schedules and run engines with dirty or ineffective lubricant, significant engine wear can occur within relatively short periods, necessitating expensive overhauls and associated downtime.

An engineered, full synthetic lubricant is therefore needed that can be safely and effectively utilized in either gasoline or diesel-fueled engines and that will demonstrate superior performance and service life benefits which far surpass and justify any related increase in original purchase costs.

[KRDiesel]

The lubricating oil disclosed herein is an engineered full PAO synthetic oil specially tailored for use as a high performance lubricant in gasoline and diesel engines. Engineered full synthetic oils are those made to the highest standards using the best PAO base stock available and are the most expensive and highest performing of the synthetic lubricating oils. These "full PAO" lubricants are designed rather than refined. As used herein, the term "full PAO" refers to lubricants containing only PAO as the principal base stock component, although viscosity improvers and minor amounts of other additives are used to further enhance the lubricant properties. It should be understood, however, that minor amounts of refined mineral oil may be present in the lubricants of the invention as diluents for some of the other additive components. The total amount of petroleum based oil used as a diluent in the compositions of the invention will preferably not exceed about 17 percent of the total lubricant by volume.

The synthetic engine lubricants of the invention are preferably formulated so as to meet or exceed the requirements for SAE 5W40 lubricants for gasoline or diesel engines. Such lubricants must have a product viscosity between about 12.9 and 16.7 centistokes (cs) over the requisite temperature range. The lubricants of the invention will desirably have a viscosity ranging between about 14.5 and 16.5 cs, preferably between about 15 and 16 cs, and most preferably, about 15.5 cs. Because the preferred PAO for use in the compositions of the invention has a viscosity substantially lower than that desired for the resultant lubricant, it is necessary to include components having higher viscosities in order to achieve the preferred viscosity for the overall product.

According to one preferred embodiment of the invention, a full PAO synthetic engine lubricant is provided that comprises from about 55 to about 75 volume percent, and more preferably from about 60 to about 70 volume percent, PAO having a viscosity that is preferably from about 6 to about 8 centistokes at 100° C.; from about 5 to about 10 volume percent of a compatible ester or diester compound, preferably having a viscosity of at least about 3.5 cs, that will enhance additive solubility as well as detergency and seal swell performance of the lubricant; a viscosity index improver comprising a sufficient amount of an ethylene-propylene copolymer having a shear stability index of at least about 25, and more preferably from about 27 to 29 or greater, to produce a viscosity ranging from about 14.5 to about 16.5, and more preferably from about 15 to about 16, in the resultant lubricant; from about 12 to about 15 volume percent of a commercially available lubricant additive package such as, for example, Chevron Oronite's OLOA 9061 to insure that the resultant lubricant meets all certification standards for an SAE 5W40 motor oil; sufficient TBN enhancer to raise the TBN of the resultant lubricant to at least 10 and preferably to at least about 12; and, if needed, a minor effective amount of a compatible antifoamant.

A particularly preferred PAO for use in the invention is a hydrogenated copolymer of 1-decene and 1-dodecene. A particularly preferred diester compound for use in the invention is diisodecyl adipate. A particularly preferred TBN enhancer for use in the invention is calcium phenate or calcium sulfonate in a diluent oil. A particularly preferred antifoamant for use in the invention is a silicone fluid such as polydimethyl(siloxane).

According to another preferred embodiment of the invention, a method for lubricating gasoline or diesel engines is disclosed that comprises the steps of providing an engine oil sump substantially devoid of leaks; filling the oil sump to an operational level with an engineered full synthetic oil as disclosed herein; while operating the engine, recirculating the oil through an external filter; periodically monitoring the total base number of the recirculating oil; and injecting into the recirculating oil a sufficient quantity of a TBN enhancer to maintain the TBN at a level of about 12.0.

According to one particularly preferred embodiment of the inventive method, the external oil filter is a centrifugal oil cleaner. According to another preferred embodiment of the invention, the TBN enhancer added to the recirculating oil comprises a high concentration of calcium phenate or calcium sulfonate in a petroleum based diluent oil, or another similarly effective, compatible TBN enhancer. According to yet another preferred embodiment of the invention, the inventive method further comprises the step of periodically monitoring the viscosity of the lubricating oil to determine whether fuel is leaking into the lubricating oil in the sump.

The engineered full PAO synthetic oil disclosed herein is most preferably installed after the engine has been run under load conditions with a mineral oil lubricant for a period sufficient to seat the piston rings. Normally this requires a minimum of 500 hours and, more preferably, about 1,000 or more hours.

The lubricant of the invention exhibits outstanding lubricity and, when used in accordance with the method of the invention, a service life more than five times longer than that experienced with conventional mineral oil lubricants, with significantly diminished health, safety and environmental risks. Furthermore, because the total volume of lubricant required is significantly lower than with mineral oil, the attendant expenses of transportation, storage and waste disposal are also reduced.