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1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 1987 - 1996 Ford F-150, F-250, F-350 and larger pickups - including the 1997 heavy-duty F250/F350+ trucks

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  #1  
Old 08-18-2009, 05:30 PM
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PIP Sensor module for distributor

After reading some of the posts here I am almost convinced that this is the cause of my starting problems. Removing the SPOUT jumper doesn't make it start. I can't seem to find the Hall Effect module in the parts listings on the net. I can find plenty of really expensive distributors.

I have been fighting this problem for a while without success. PCM, ICM and coil have been replaced and still no spark. It was intermittent but now is failing completely. I don't have the equipment to test the PIP sensor.

Where can I get a sensor that is reasonably priced? (1994 F-150, 5.0L, manual transmission)
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:42 PM
So-Cal Sancho So-Cal Sancho is offline
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I was having intermittent stalling, no start conditions on my 1996 f250, 460. I kinda read somewhere that you had to pull the dist anyways to replace the sensor and after that it was kinda difficult. I just ponied up an replaced the dist. easier for me but it cost a lot more. 1 month so far and no problems.
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Old 08-18-2009, 06:44 PM
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Here is one:
http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...S_554487600___

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Old 08-18-2009, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by So-Cal Sancho View Post
I was having intermittent stalling, no start conditions on my 1996 f250, 460. I kinda read somewhere that you had to pull the dist anyways to replace the sensor and after that it was kinda difficult. I just ponied up an replaced the dist. easier for me but it cost a lot more. 1 month so far and no problems.
When the truck gets over 15 years old the bushing are more than likely gone in the distributor also so replacing the distributor is the best way to do it.
You need a press to get the gear off and on to take the distributor apart all the way to replace the Stator (pip sensor).
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:33 PM
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It's a ton of work to get the distributor apart to replace the pip sensor. You are better off just buying a new distributor.
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:42 PM
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Wow! Several responses already. Sounds like I really need to consider replacing the distributor. I have found a rebuilt for less than $60 so maybe that's the way to go. It's a SNAP rebuild from Car Parts Wholesale. Any thoughts on its quality?

And thanks for the recommendations.
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Old 08-18-2009, 08:46 PM
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Like I just said in another thread, you get what you pay for.
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Old 08-23-2009, 06:40 PM
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Well, I hung an oscilloscope on the PIP output and saw that there were no pulses there. Advance Auto Parts had a replacement distributor and after one false start with a defective replacement I had a good one and it started up just fine and had good square pulses. I could have saved myself a lot of money on replacement parts if I had understood how the ignition system works, especially the limp home feature that works without the computer controlling the spark. I'm surprised that there is not a FAQ about this on this forum. I am writing this expenditure off as an training course on OBDI ignitions. One other thing I found was that my manual transmission 5.0L had the black ICM instead of the gray one (push start). It now has the gray one. Apparently the problem of mismatch is not so great on the manual transmission systems since it ran fine until the PIP failure. For anyone checking the signals on the connectors using the HELM manuals, be careful of orientation. Use the wire colors instead of the orientation in the drawings, at least at the ICM connector. Thanks to all for the support. It's my second fix assisted by the list!
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Old 08-23-2009, 07:00 PM
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You will not have as much power with the gray ICM and you will have an MIL (CEL) light on at all times with the Gray Module as your computer will not be receiving the IDM from the ICM and it will be giving a code as well. Plus a lot of states will not pass the truck with the MIL on.

Read the article titled:
DOMESTICALLY SPEAKING
in
http://www.capitolautomotive.com/pdf/cccnewsletter.pdf
Also see

All 4 TFI's together http://fordfuelinjection.com/files/compare_TFIs.gif

I think you need to put your old black one back in as they very seldom go bad anyway.
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Old 08-23-2009, 07:28 PM
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I don't have the computer dwell PCM. I have the push start.
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Old 08-23-2009, 07:55 PM
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Well, now SUBFORD has got me to thinking more about this. I can't recall a specific indicator that this is a push start system. I think I was maybe assuming push start for manual transmission systems. The HELM EVTM manual doesn't show pin 4 PCM to pin 4 ICM but it could be a generic diagram. I'll have to check the wiring as indicated in the newletter to be sure. My MIL does not come on and does light up in the initial lamp check. Thanks for the very good newsletter reference.
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Old 08-23-2009, 08:35 PM
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If you have a 1996 you have a CCD system.
The last push-start system was in 1993.

The 1996 Ignition system:
Click the image to open in full size.

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Old 08-23-2009, 09:07 PM
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It's a 94. The same diagram in my HELM manual for the 94 looks very similar to the 96 you supplied. I tried the old black ICM and it still works with no MIL lights. I think something is amiss with the MIL codes program as I was not able to get codes out while it was failed with the bad distributor. Could be why the gray module doesn't give errors. I think I will take your advice and replace the ICM with the old black one. With all this confusion in parts manuals and computer databases it must have created a lot of problems. I got the gray ICM from Advance Auto Parts after looking it up on their web site using my truck's model information.
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:22 PM
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But looking again at your diagram, pin 4 of the ICM does not go to pin 4 of the PCM like the CCNEWSLETTER describes for CCD systems. It goes to Start/Run 12 V. I'm confused.
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:40 PM
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Do not go by the ICM pin numbers in the drawings.
Sorry I though that I saw you had a 1996.
The ICM in the 1994 HELM EVTM is miss labled and says start where it should say IDM.
I will also post the wiring of the Push-Start system and the CCD system below.

The Push-Start System:
Click the image to open in full size.

The CCD system (your system):
Click the image to open in full size.

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94 F53 460 E4OD COACHMEN SANTARA RV
83 F150 Flare Side 351W AOD
77 F250 351M-2V NP 435/4 Speed 4X4
subford@gmail.com
Bill K, Kansas Chapter
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Old 08-23-2009, 09:40 PM
 
 
 
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