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Old 08-08-2009, 01:06 PM
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Troubleshooting a No-Start condition

I have been working on this for awhile. Thought I would post it now and add to it as necessary.

Troubleshooting a NO-START:

1. Pull diagnostic trouble codes (DTC's) if you can (you can have codes without a Check Engine Light).

2. Automatic transmission shift lever fully in PARK or NEUTRAL? Try restarting while slightly moving the gearshift lever.

3. If manual, clutch pedal fully pressed?

4. Battery connections (all including grounds) - all good? Alternator cable connections good?

5. Starter relay connections - all good?

6. Glow plug connectors making good connection?

7. Is the starter engaging? Verify starter and ignition switch are working properly.

8. Load test BOTH batteries individually and check the charging system (alternator). PCM needs to see 100 rpm minimum to start IIRC.

9. Fusible links and fuses OK? The FICM relay is labled IDM Relay #304. Check it specifically.

10. Could a factory or aftermarket anti-theft device be causing the problem (Passive Active Theft System - PATS)? Disconnect it if possible. Same w/ a remote start system.

11. Push the reset on the emergency fuel cut-off switch.

12. Any oil pressure registering on the dash pressure gauge (low pressure system)? If not, it could be a bad oil pump (LPOP), a oil filter drain valve stuck open, or a bad oil pressure regulator. You should register oil pressure on the dash gauge in a long crank/ no start condition when the complete oil system is known to be sealed.

13. Check PCM and FICM connections - any wire chaffing? Any Injector harness chaffing? Any ICP or IPR harness chaffing? More detail below.

14. Verify that the oil level is correct and the proper oil and filter have been installed. Oil foaming and loss of viscosity (too thick or fuel diluted) can be an issue. Check oil level for fuel dilution, inspect oil condition, maybe even change oil and filter. Definitely make sure you filled w/ the proper oil.

15. Verify that the air filter is not plugged - Check the filter minder and you may even want to pull the air filter and inspect.

16. Inspect the ICP sensor and harness. Is it oil soaked? Disconnect the ICP and try again. The PCM will establish a default control scheme that would allow the truck to start if the problem were the ICP sensor. Afterwards, make sure the harness is re-installed securely. Also, check ICP circuit fuse.

17. Change both fuel filters, inspect appearance of the fuel when draining the water separator (you could just have bad fuel).
Make sure that the air is purged on start-up. By following the proper (KOEO) cycling procedure before cranking."

18. If you can, verify the fuel pressure (test port is at the base of the secondary fuel filter). Must be over 45 psig.

19. If you have no fuel flow or low pressure, it could be a bad pump (HFCM), OR it could be a plugged fuel filter or plugged lines. You can blow air through the lines to check for plugging. If there is no pluggage, test the pump. First, pull fuse 302 (PCM) and relay 304 (FICM) and then pull the secondary (upper) fuel filter, remove any fuel, and then verify that it is being filled by cranking the engine. As it is being filled, make sure there are no air bubbles. If there are, you have a leak in some connections, the HFCM suction line, or the HFCM o-ring (most likely). Be sure to lube the o-ring w/ oil before re-installing.
TO CHECK FOR SUCTION LINE PLUGGING:
The pump vacuum test is refered to as an ""inlet restriction test"". This will test from the pump to the tank for a restriction. A reading that of more than 6"" H2O vacuum is very bad. 6"" is the max limit. The normal reading is between 2"" and 0"" of H2O.
To do this test you would need to ""T"" a vacuum gauge in between the back of the pump and the line coming into it. If you have a high reading there, then move the T to the tank at the outlet line. If the restriction is still present at the tank, then the problem is in the tank. If there is no restriction at this point, then the issue would be with the supply line to the pump."

20. Pull the oil filter top and have someone crank it while you watch to see if any oil is flowing into the filter housing. If not then it is a LPO problem. Take a long extension and hold down the check valve (round black thing held up by a spring). Have someone crank the engine. The housing should fill within about 10 seconds of cranking.

21. If possible, verify high pressure oil pressure (ICP sensor) - must be over 500 psig to fire the injectors. See link below.

22. Pull the EGR valve and inspect. Clean if dirty. Check the strength of the spring. Consider replacing it - just because. Also clean the MAP sensor hose and the EBP tube. These may cause surging and hard start, but a long shot for a no-start.

23. Troubleshoot the glow plug system (you need a clamp on inductive ammeter). Test each glow plug module wire bundle separately, then test each glow plug. Look for any amperages lower on one side or lower to an individual glow plug. From each module you should see 200 A at first dropping quickly to 35-37 A if the GPCM is OK. Both modules should read apprx. the same. Each glow plug will draw 8-10 A. Or you could check the resistance in each glow plug - should be less than 1 ohm.

24. Carry out the KOEO Injector Electrical Self-Test (Click Test) and the bubble test.

25. Check the Crank (CKP) and Cam (CMP) sensor wiring harnesses.

26. Check the FICM voltage - see post #27 below.

Wire Chaffing Locations:
http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forum...ad.php?t=58336
FICM and ICP harness recall
http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/photographs/index1.php
http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articl...icle-05-13.php
http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articl...icle-05-11.php
http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forum...harness+recall

mms://multimedia.ford.com/seopts/Tech12_250k.wmv
(in the link above you may have to copy and past the address in your web browser to access the video from Ford.

h t t p://turbodieselforums.com/downloads/6.0L%20wire%20chafing.pdf
(copy and paste the URL above in your browser - without the spaces in http)
h t t p://turbodieselforums.com/downloads/Econoline%20Wire%20Chafe.pdf
(copy and paste the URL above in your browser - without the spaces in http)

TROUBLESHOOT THE HPO PRESSURE SYSTEM:
http://www.itpdiesel.com/store.php?rpt_qry=1&start=2
http://www.itpdiesel.com/store.php?rpt_qry=1&start=3

Determinimg if the ICP sensor is seeing 500 psig minimum (see post #23 in link below):
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/86...not-start.html
If possible, you can pull the ICP and install a pressure gauge to check the pressure in the “high pressure oil system”. Crank the engine and watch the pressure. You need 500 psig to start. The fitting needed for this is the same as that for the fuel pressure test port.
Here is a way of checking to see if you have sufficient high pressure oil without having a gauge or adapter. Strip back the wires about an inch away from the icp sensor connector. Obtain a digital multimeter and set it for voltage (DC). The bn-wh wire is a five volt reference, leave that alone. Strip back the db-lg signal wire and the gy-rd ground wire. Put positive lead on a dark blue-light green wire and negative lead on gray-red wire. Have an assistant crank truck, you need a minimum of 0.80 volts (500 psi) for the truck to start, if you are getting greater than that then you have sufficient high pressure oil.

To check your ipr and hp oil system:
1. Get an ipr connector from Ford and put 2 long wires on the end, plug it into the ipr. Later you will attach the 2 long leads to b+ and negative ...... this will close the ipr.

2. Then remove your icp sensor (04.25 and up truck??) from the passenger side valve cover and thread a fitting in with an air fitting on the end (so you can apply compressed air to the hp oil system).

3. Remove your oil fill cap, your intake up to the turbo (get the ccv out of the valve cover at least), and the hot side cac tube.

4. Then, command the IPR closed for only 30 seconds, apply 100psi air to the hp oil system and listed to where the leak is coming from.

When you hear it you've found your problem....that is assuming you have a hp oil problem.
If your building low and high oil pressure fine, then you've just wasted your time.

Generally on no-start conditions that are related to "high pressure oil" leaks, the vehicle will still develop low pressure system pressures. However, the plug on the H.P. oil feed can occasionally blow out, the H.P. pump seal can blow out, and on the '03-04 trucks the ball on the side of the H.P. pump blow out - causing loss of base oil pressure.

Hard start - no start conditions related to the HPOP could be attributed to the following components in the high poressure oil system (air test while hot will determine the root cause):
h t t p://www.*******.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11583
(leave the spaces out of http and where the asterisks are insert the word "ford truck fanatics" with no spaces)
Faulty IPR valve
Leaking snap-to-connect (STC) fitting (05 and up model years)
Leaky or cracked branch tube
Leak with the stand pipe
Leaky or cracked oil rail (including oil rail end caps/plugs)
Leak in the d-rings of the oil rail front port plugs (or dummy plugs)
Leaky o-ring on an injector; or leak at the top of the injector where the ball tube from the high pressure oil rail connects to the injector.
Weak or failed HPOP itself
Low base oil pressure (failed oil pressure regulator).
Low base oil pressure (bad low pressure oil pump - LPOP).

Post #4 below has a low pressure oil test procedure

Post #16 below has another reference to a no-start checklist

One easy check for injector problems: SEE POST #17 below
"When injectors fail, it is possible for combustion gasses to flow into the fuel system and displace the fuel. The gasses come through the pintle seat and into the fuel galley in the head and up into the fuel filter.

Crank Shaft Position Sensor (CKP)
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/al...ictureid=15905
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/al...ictureid=15906
http://dan.prxy.org/Truck/6L_bible_h.../Page_052.html
Cam Shaft Position Sensor (CMP)
http://dan.prxy.org/Truck/6L_bible_h.../Page_010.html
http://dan.prxy.org/Truck/6L_bible_h.../Page_053.html
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Old 08-09-2009, 04:32 AM
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Maxium4x4 - thanks for putting this in the Tech Folder. I think w/ some input from the site Techs, this can be a very useful thread. Seems like quite a few "no-starts" lately.

One thing I left off (on item no. 13) is that no pressure registering on the gauge panel could also be a bad pressure sensor. The PCM needs to see a minimum of 5 psig oil pressure for the engine to start.

I believe that also means that the engine will die if the PCM sees the LPO pressure drop below 5 psig. Can someone confirm this?

Also, what troubleshooting techniques could a person use to identify a bad oil pressure sensor? Say they were stranded on the highway?

The main reason I started this thread was to help a person rule out the easy things before taking the truck in for repairs. However, just recently, D8chumley helped diagnose a no-start condition for a friend while he was on a trip (turned out to be a HPO problem). Even though the friend could not do the repair on the side of the road, it is still helpful to know the cause of the problem when you are in a location where you do not know the reputation of the repair shops.

The more input and troubleshooting techniques we can pack into this thread, the better!
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Old 08-09-2009, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bismic View Post

One thing I left off (on item no. 13) is that no pressure registering on the gauge panel could also be a bad pressure sensor. The PCM needs to see a minimum of 5 psig oil pressure for the engine to start.

I believe that also means that the engine will die if the PCM sees the LPO pressure drop below 5 psig. Can someone confirm this?

Also, what troubleshooting techniques could a person use to identify a bad oil pressure sensor? Say they were stranded on the highway?
I'm not sure where you got this information but I've never been able to find anything that the PCM reads low pressure oil from. By looking at the wiring diagram it's nothing but a resistance switch that goes directly to the dash panel. I think that's why you have to tap directly into a low pressure oil galley to use a manual gauge. The LPO is like a safety in itself. If you have no low oil pressure then the HPOP has no oil to fire the injectors anyway and it won't start.
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Old 08-09-2009, 07:14 AM
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Great information Bismic, here is the low pressure oil test procedure.

Using a suitable adapter (such as Aeroquip® 2022-4-4S), install it in the engine oil pressure sensor hole to carry out the base oil pressure test.

Install gauge to check the base oil pressure. The minimum engine oil pressure specifications are 82.7 kPa (12 psi) at 700 rpm, 165.5 kPa (24 psi) at 1,200 rpm and 310.3 kPa (45 psi) at 1,800 rpm with the engine at operating temperature.
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Old 08-09-2009, 07:35 AM
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tim.burke.167
Excellent job Mark. I might just have to print this out and keep it in the truck with me! * Wish I could rep ya*
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Old 08-09-2009, 07:58 AM
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Great info as always, Mark. Thanks.
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Old 08-09-2009, 08:13 AM
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tim.burke.167
Hey Mark, the first link to the diesel garage is just a picture of a pretty black truck. Just wanted to let you know
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Old 08-09-2009, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npccpartsman View Post
I'm not sure where you got this information but I've never been able to find anything that the PCM reads low pressure oil from. By looking at the wiring diagram it's nothing but a resistance switch that goes directly to the dash panel. I think that's why you have to tap directly into a low pressure oil galley to use a manual gauge. The LPO is like a safety in itself. If you have no low oil pressure then the HPOP has no oil to fire the injectors anyway and it won't start.
correct... the PCM doesn't use LPO pressure data.. it's just a switch for the gauge in the cluster...

looks like another great addition to the tech folder Mark..
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Old 08-09-2009, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npccpartsman View Post
I'm not sure where you got this information but I've never been able to find anything that the PCM reads low pressure oil from. By looking at the wiring diagram it's nothing but a resistance switch that goes directly to the dash panel. I think that's why you have to tap directly into a low pressure oil galley to use a manual gauge. The LPO is like a safety in itself. If you have no low oil pressure then the HPOP has no oil to fire the injectors anyway and it won't start.
Thanks for the clarification. My reference for this is very old, good to know the "straight scoop".

Any other additions? Any way to make this more useful?
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Old 08-09-2009, 07:47 PM
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The only other question I have or addition is if all year models will register oil pressure on the dash gauge in a long crank/ no start condition when the complete oil system is known to be sealed.

I now know what coltshrike's oil pressure problem is and I'll post it in his thread. HPO leak.
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Old 08-10-2009, 12:43 PM
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where is the the emergency fuel cut off switch on the 2005 6.0?
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:00 PM
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tim.burke.167
You'll have to check your owners manual, but mine is behind the kick panel on the pass. side floor area. I think... I better check myself.
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Old 08-10-2009, 02:29 PM
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nice Job Mark. Tried to rep you, BUT
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Old 08-10-2009, 05:22 PM
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so if my ICP sensor reading is less than .80 volts then i dont enough HPOP pressure? do i still have to check the IPR valve if it have less than .80 volts? is it noticeable if the STC fitting is leaking
once i take the HPOP cover off??....sorry for all the questions but im trying to fix it myself and on a low budget ........................
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:13 AM
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This post is correcting the first link under the "Wire Chaffing" topic.

The link was broken when the forums database was "hacked". Now, the proper link is:
http://www.thedieselgarage.com/forum...ad.php?t=58336

Also, for the video link posted earlier (and will re-post below), you need to copy the link and paste it in your browser.
mms://multimedia.ford.com/seopts/Tech12_250k.wmv

I am now trying to find the proper link to replace the broken one under the HPO system section.
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:13 AM
 
 
 
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