Some people seem to recommend a high-volume (racing) oil pump for towing. I have a 1985 460ci, and will be towing a heavy load. Would a pump like this be worth the expense?

Thanks for any advice.

 

I'm not a racer or engine builder, but I think the reasoning behind the high volume pumps is because racing engines are built very loose to reduce internal friction. So theoreticly a higher volume of oil will better fill in the gaps. The higher volume also provides better cooling by removing the heat generated by friction.

Even towing a heavy trailer, I doubt your engine will see the abuse taken by a high performace racing engine. It may be of some benefit, since we all like to see the needle read a lot higher on the idiot gauge. But for dollar spent, addition of engine oil and transmission fluid coolers may have more long lasting benefit.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 28-Aug-02 AT 01:52 PM (EST)]probably not, but Im sure someone will have an argument for me

I often subscribe to the "If it aint broke, keep working on it till it is theory" but this time I dont.

If you do replace the pump, and the volume of oil is too high, you can literally run the motor out of oil as the oil may not drain down quick enough to replenish all that is being pumped to the heads. (small returns, not under pressure- gravity fed) This would play havoc on your crank and journals as they are splash lubricated and would be lacking. (may require you to install restrictor plates, and a new larger capacity oil pan)

Higher volume oil pumps make the engine run hotter, probably not what you want in this towing situation.

You may be replacing valve cover gaskets more often.

Whats your oil pressure guage max? would you have to replace the guage as well? I have a small block that can exceed 120 on oil pressure (under heavy acceleration and only briefly)


So thats my $0.02,

Drew

 

Thanks to you both. I am glad to find that I do not need to spend money on yet another thing, and I also think an engine oil cooler is important.

Lots of good advice; I appreciate it.

 

I like to run high volume oil pumps in everything. I also build my engines with a lot looser clearances than many prefer. Scott is right on the money with his explanation. You would be better of spending the cash on a oil cooler or a tranny cooler. But what is this about exspence ? The shop where I am working sells regular and highvolume oilpumps for the same price. But if the pump that is in your engine now is okay, there is no reason to change it just because you plan to tow. But I would like to clear up some misconceptions- A highvolume oilpump will NOT 1). make your engine run hotter
2). 'suck your oilpan dry'
3). cause more wear and tear on the distributer and cam gears. I don't know where these old wives tales got their start, but they simply are't true. DF

 

I read Dinos post and immediately thought this guy doesn’t know what hes talking about, and I was ready to write a big old letter on his misconceptions.

Boy am I glad I didn’t just jump in and write something to that effect.

I called Milodon to talk with one of their guys, and much to my dismay and utter embarrassment, Their Tech guy confirmed almost to a tee all three of the Wives tales that Dino mentioned.
(minor condolence, Tech guy said if oem oil pump is working properly, there is no need to replace just to tow).

Not being one to leave well enough alone, I hung up and called Summit racing. Their Tech guys wanted to rebuild your entire motor, or even sell a new crate motor (they acted more like salesmen...must be getting commision) but effectively agreed that Dino was once again correct.

I was able to get one of the homeless guys outside my building to agree with me that Dino and the world was crazy, but since I had given him a dollar I didnt want anyone accusing me of paying him off.


Ugghhh, hate to give bad info, hate to be wrong, hate to have to admit it………but at least I learned something today.

Drew


:-staun

 

I, too, had heard that high-volume oil pumps were not a good idea for the reasons mentioned. This includes a recommendation from my previous machine shop not to use the high-volume pump (they said it would pump the pan dry).

A few days ago I surfed over to the [link:www.melling.com|Melling web site] and got an education about oil pumps.

Short answer, high-volume pumps are a good idea in a towing application. I recommend visiting the Melling link and reading their tech info.

 

I agree with dino but I did call crane with an unrelated question and mentioned I run a HV pump and the guy there said it would eat my cam. I told him I would be staying with the HV pump anyway. I'm sorry but a stock pump will not suffice for a racing application. As for towing it wouldn't hurt but I don't think its necessary.

 

Rumors around here about oil pumps and non-racing situations is 10lbs
pressure x each 1,000rpm.
Good quality and proper weight viscosity oil for outside temp.
Nice big engine oil and trans coolers.

 

Huh, crank and journals are splash lubricated? Maybe on your B&S lawnmower engine. I am no Ford expert by any stretch of the imagination but most of the Automotive/truck engines I have ever seen or read about had oil passages in the crank and many bearing sets have an oil groove to allow oil out of the passage easier. Yes there is some splashing, but usually that is an undesired side effect of the crank twirling around. Many higer performance engines have crank scrappers and windage trays to prevent "splash oiling". On a stock engine splash is OK.

As far as high volume. Most of us probably won't stress the engine hard enough or fast enough to cause problems. But my gut feel is that more volume available won't hurt an engine used for tow duty. If your engine is a bit older(looser) then it actually would be a benefit. I would shy away from greatly increased pressure, unless you race, but volume is not a bad thing and it is not the same as pressure. Note, many pumps can change the pressure by using a different spring.

The Melling site looks pretty informative, I'll have to spend some time reading it. It does have a good section on high volume etc. Melling is the brand pump I used way back when I used to hotrod Dodge wedges, I never had a complaint then.

Good Luck,

Jim Henderson

 

DF , I'm running a Milo HV pump on my 400 with about 900 miles on the engine so far----my pressure with M1, 10w-30 is about 80 psi(cold at idle) and at 170 f it will drop to about 60 at 60 mph and drop to 28 to 30 psi at idle---this has been the case since the motor was put back in the truck--77 f250.......sometimes it will fluctuate between say 48 psi and 60 psi running down the road at 55 mph , i don't understand this situation but no problems so far---I'm using an autometer 2 5/8 inch gauge which i believe to be accurate---I also added an extra qt. of oil for a total of 6 as I , too , had read that the hv pump might suck the pan dry , I'm relieved to hear otherwise , thanks for the update , fd

 

my experience with hv pumps has been simply to crutch high mileage engines. modern theory seems to point to tighter clearances, light oil (5w30), and moderate oil press. The 10# per thousand guide has been around for a while. In my experience it has been fine. My many mile FE now has a HV pump simply to build moderate pressure. At operating temp and cruise rpm I have 45lbs. at idle I have less than 10. Tow a trailer with concrete forms that weighs 12-14000lbs depending on what material is required for the job. no problems. For comparison: Your vehicle likely has much less mileage than mine but the operating pressures are probably similar.