At the risk of being stoned by the crowd I thought I would post this link because the test results are interesting:

http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/amsoil_vs_mobil1.htm

I'm not an Amsoil Dealer and I personally use Mobil 1 in all my vehicles so please have mercy on me

 

In the real world, I wouldn't say that either one out performs the other just by comparing the small differences in their specifications. 6 deg. F lower pour point is hardly worth bragging about. Amsoil's TBN is signifigantly greater than Mobil, but can it maintain it through it's intended drain interval? I really doubt if that high a TBN rating is even necessary for most gasoline engines. Both Amsoil and M1 carry an obsolete diesel rating and 5w30 is not generally recommended for diesels except in extreme conditions. So the advantage of higher TBN can't be put to use in a diesel.

 

I agree that the pour point is insignificant for most people. I though the 4 ball wear test was more interesting because the M1 had 50% more wear which is very significant. The biggest question then is does this translate to 50% less wear on the engine under "normal" conditions? I doubt it, but it's certainly an interesting test result.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 20-Nov-02 AT 02:35 PM (EST)]Well for starters the TBN Amdirt lists for mobil is wrong. The last time I had my mobil 1 (unused) tested it was at 11 not 8.45. So in my opinion the difference between Amdirts 12.35 and Mobil's 11 is small. Since Amdirt has that info incorrect I would imagine the other data they post is all bogus to........

And yes the TBN does change after several thousand miles. At 15,000 miles on my mobil my TBN was about 4.

 

I think Amsoil is playing games with the API and ILSAC ratings. I don't see the "For Gasoline Engines" licensed symbol on the label. Does anyone have a bottle of Amsoil to see the actual symbols and ratings on both sides?

The 4-ball wear test results would be dependent upon zinc content. I can't find MSDS sheets on Amsoil's site and zinc is not listed in the data sheets. However, if you look at the Amsoil Motorcycle sheet, it shows pretty clearly that more zinc and phosphorus means a smaller wear scar in the test.

Mobil, and the other major oil companies had to reduce the TBN, zinc and phosphorus to meet the latest ILSAC GF-3, and API "For Gasoline Engines" starbust symbol requirements. So yes, the latest Mobil One formula may be inferior is some respects. This would apply to all major brands as well. You still have to decide for yourself if the extra cost is worth the difference.

Jim

 

Greenpus, I don't doubt your tests results, I'm just curious as to whether you tested before they reformulated to SuperSyn or when it was called Tri-Syn? I think that may make a difference. The tests were conducted on SuperSyn.

FYI I just got a quote an Amsoil dealer and it's about the same as Mobile 1 (4.50 qt before shipping) so cost isn't an factor for me.

Anyone what does the API "For Gasoline Engines" mean anyway? I'm not sure if Amsoil has that rating or not.

Jim, I'm skeptical about ratings also, but for Amsoil to claim ratings and never have done the tests would end up costing them lots of money in the long run because I doubt Mobil or any other large competitor would stand by and let them get away with that (not to mention the standards body). It would be an easy court case to win if they made a false claim there.

 

Personally I don't use 5W30. I use 5W40 because thats what 2 out of 3 of my vehicles require. So to compare it with Amsoil 5W30 is a stretch at best. The I mostly use Shell Rotella T which is much cheaper than Amsoil, available at wally world, has a TBN number of 10, and has a higher flash point.

Because one of my vehicles is a diesel, I am considering changing over to Mobile Delvac 1. It has a pour point of -54 (better than Amsoil), a flash point of 240 (better than Amsoil), and a TBN of 11 (almost the same as Amsoil).

Again, the viscosity is different. As for the 4 ball wear test, Last time I checked my engine does not use ball bearings. Amsoil also never seems to list Sulfated Ash wt% in any of its specs.

IF you want to run synthetic, catch Mobil 1 on sale or Shell Rotella T 5W40.

Reggie

 

>Again, the viscosity is different. As for the 4 ball wear
>test, Last time I checked my engine does not use ball
>bearings. Amsoil also never seems to list Sulfated Ash wt%
>in any of its specs.

Thanks for your feedback. I think you are misunderstanding what this test is. It is designed to test slide friction of two metal surfaces. The setup is 3 *stationary* ***** surrounding a single ball that is spinning and pressure is applied to the spinning ball from the 3 other *****. This is different than ball bearings. So I think it could have some relevance.

Also I use Mobil 1 in all 3 of my vehicles, I'm just someone that wants to know as much as possible about this subject even if it involves a company's product many on this board seem to despise. I may stick with Mobile 1 or not depending on what conclusions I can come to.

 

>Jim, I'm skeptical about ratings also, but for Amsoil to
>claim ratings and never have done the tests would end up
>costing them lots of money in the long run because I doubt
>Mobil or any other large competitor would stand by and let
>them get away with that (not to mention the standards body).
>It would be an easy court case to win if they made a false
>claim there.

My point is that they may not use the official API markings on the bottle to stay out of legal trouble. It appears that they merely "recommend" thier products for engines requiring certain ratings. Again, does anyone have a bottle and can verify the markings?

If Ford, or anyone else were to void a warranty claim due to Amsoil not carrying a certain rating, Amsoil would probably pay for the repair under thier own warranty. I don't see this as a real-world issue.

Also, they don't list sulfated ash content because it is very high on products with a high TBN and high zinc/phosphorus content.

Jim

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 21-Nov-02 AT 12:11 PM (EST)]>Also, they don't list sulfated ash content because it is
>very high on products with a high TBN and high
>zinc/phosphorus content.

I'm not sure how important this sulfated ash number is, but I think you are right it is a byproduct of the additive package used to protect the engine so shouldn't be looked at by itself as a bad thing. "The Motor Oil Bible" has a table comparing the specs of over 20 brands of oils. Here's a sample of the total base number and sulfated ash on a select few. Interesting enough the Ash content isn't precise on the Amsoil, so maybe that does indicate theres an estimation going on. I have emailed the author to see if he has an answer to that question.

Here the info:
0w30 (TBN, Sulfated Ash %):
Amsoil S2000 0w30 (11,~1)
Chevron Delo 0w30 400 Synthetic (10,1.1)
Castrol Syntec 0w30 (??,.9)

5w30(TBN, Sulfated Ash %):
Amsoil (11,~1)
Chevron Supreme Syn (9,1.12)
Valvoline Synpower (9,1.1)
Valvoline Durablend (8.1,1.0)
Chevron Supreme (7.1,.86)

10w30(TBN, Sulfated Ash %):
Amsoil (12.2,~1)
Castrol Syntec (??,1.04)
Chevron Supreme Syn (9.2,1.1)
Chevron Delo 400 (10.1,1.34)
Chevron Supreme (7.1,.86)
Valvoline Synpower (9,1.1)

5w40(TBN, Sulfated Ash %):
Chevron Delo 400 Synth (11.3,1.34)
Delvac Delvac 1 (11,1.3)
Valvoline Synpower (9, 1.1)

 

I'd take it with a grain of salt. Amsoil and Mobil 1 are unquestionably great oils. However, I think Amsoil "Am-Soils" it's pants (get it) a little too soon when making their outrageous claims.

It been said in earlier posts - all the characteristics of the oil change over time. Tests, IMO, just provide a suggestion for what to do, you never know how well the oil actually performs until you use it for yourself. If you have 2 cars, and use Mobil1 in one and Amsoil in the other, and they both run great until the frames rust out, then does it really matter which oil was better?

In short, Amsoil needs to spend less time trashing other manufacturers and more time improving their marketing skills.

I had a bunch more to say, but I just got home from work. I'll see you guys later.

XXL

 

>In short, Amsoil needs to spend less time trashing other
>manufacturers and more time improving their marketing
>skills.

Just like in politics, whether it nauseates us or not, it's claimed that negative advertising works...

Rumors, negative comments and even outright fraud often perpetuate themselves, particularly on the internet.

Maybe that's all part of their marketing strategy. Maybe not.

I've seen Amsoil dealers post some some real whoppers on the internet, here's some of the better ones. My objection is that Amsoil seemingly does nothing to deal with fraudulent and absurd claims by their dealers- And I'm not going to do business with a company like that, regardless of the quality of their products. Here's some of the better ones I've seen lately:

"If a vandal ever puts sand in your transmission you will wish
you had amsoil in it. Someone one did that to my wives car
and then tightened the drain plug ( Aluminum ) so it could not be
removed with out drilling. She was busy and had to use the car.
So she just drove it with the sand in it for 100,000 miles waiting
for it to blow. ( it was insured) but it never went down."


"Yes..... I am off road 90% of my driving and if I knocked a hole in
the pan and lost the oil I could drive home with no damage. If you
hit something on the freeway with junk oil in your car you ain't going
home. My wife can just keep on driving and not hurt anything."


"...when I sell my trucks I get $1500 over high book because
I can prove it had nothing in it but Amsoil synthetics. Nothing
wares out. On a gas rig it will last OVER 500,000 miles and the
diesel a million +.."

 

>
>"If a vandal ever puts sand in your transmission you will
>wish
>you had amsoil in it. Someone one did that to my wives car
>and then tightened the drain plug ( Aluminum ) so it could
>not be
>removed with out drilling. She was busy and had to use the
>car.
>So she just drove it with the sand in it for 100,000 miles
>waiting
>for it to blow. ( it was insured) but it never went down."
>
>
>"Yes..... I am off road 90% of my driving and if I knocked a
>hole in
>the pan and lost the oil I could drive home with no damage.
>If you
>hit something on the freeway with junk oil in your car you
>ain't going
>home. My wife can just keep on driving and not hurt
>anything."
>
>
>"...when I sell my trucks I get $1500 over high book because
>I can prove it had nothing in it but Amsoil synthetics.
>Nothing
>wares out. On a gas rig it will last OVER 500,000 miles and
>the
>diesel a million +.."
>



Sooo, according to this, I could put sand in my tranny, take my drain plug out permanently, and still have it run 500K?????

Holy smokes, I've going about this oil change thing all wrong, just think of all the wasted money on oil!!

 

>"If a vandal ever puts sand in your transmission you will
>wish
>you had amsoil in it. Someone one did that to my wives car
>and then tightened the drain plug ( Aluminum ) so it could
>not be
>removed with out drilling. She was busy and had to use the
>car.
>So she just drove it with the sand in it for 100,000 miles
>waiting
>for it to blow. ( it was insured) but it never went down."
>


Well I'm going to use sand as a conditioner in my Tranny from now on!

 

>Rumors, negative comments and even outright fraud often
>perpetuate themselves, particularly on the internet.
>
>Maybe that's all part of their marketing strategy. Maybe
>not.
>
>I've seen Amsoil dealers post some some real whoppers on the
>internet, here's some of the better ones. My objection is
>that Amsoil seemingly does nothing to deal with fraudulent
>and absurd claims by their dealers- And I'm not going to do
>business with a company like that, regardless of the quality
>of their products. Here's some of the better ones I've seen
>lately:

Great point. It does say something about the company when they don't care what kind of outlandish claims a dealer will make. This is a flaw in the MLM approach too because it just multiplies the number of idiots who can make the claims. The dealer I purchased from didn't fit into that category btw.

I use their ATF in my vehicle and what I encountered with other Amsoil dealers is the assumption if it was Amsoil it was the best without anything to really back it up. Some of their products may be up their with the best, but I seriously doubt all of them are.