I bought my truck about 2-1/2 years ago, and within a few weeks, had bought a DP Tuner. I recently got an Adrenaline HPOP and decided to go with a PHP chip. The tunes I originally got weren't the best choices for me, partly because I was in a massive rush. So now my Phoenix chip is back with PHP, and I've been running "stock"..... but my current (PCM only) "stock" is nowhere near as slow as the stock setting with a chip (DP or PHP). So I'm thinking that the former owner had some tuning put right in to the PCM.... and I have no idea what it could be.

I have 3 questions then:

1. Is there a way to get the PCM scanned/read to determine what is in there now?

2. Will having some unknown tuning done to the PCM affect how my truck runs with a piggy-back style (TS/DP) chip?

3. Would it be wise/safe/"the smart thing" to get the PCM flashed by a local Ford dealer to eliminate whatever is in the PCM?

Thanks!

 

I would ask those questions with PHP Brendan. My "guess" is that his stuff overrides the PCM to a point but there is probably a reason they need to know which program is on it to program the chip correctly. Again, my guess would be that you want to either reflash to stock or at least let PHP know there is something else on the PCM.

 

I think for sure Brendan, that with the added mods that you have you probably would want to know that the PCM is starting from ground zero. Not knowing the intricacies of tuning, I'm not sure if the PHP/DP chip totally overrides ALL PCM programming and it's a non-issue, or if it still uses a baseline and then modifies it from there. I believe it's the latter of the two, and I would want to know that the baseline the chip is assuming is the correct one, really IS that.

Now, that being said, I know for a fact that as far as DP goes, the stock tune setting in DP still has a bit of Jody's magic inherent in the tune. The throttle response is way better, but the power level is still limited to stock. So that may be what you are experiencing, I don't know. On your re-burn for the adrenaline HPOP, I'm sure PHP accounted for the fact that you have an adrenaline, so when you take the chip out and go back to the true stock setting, the PCM doesn't realize you have the added HPOP and when it calls for oil it does it with commands specific to the stock HPOP and the new one is putting more out. SO that is probably why you are experiencing more performance from the true stock programming than from the stock setting on your chip.

Then again, I could be absolutely off base there.

edit: damn Jay, you typed that response faster than I could get mine out.

 

Hey Brendan. I think that the chip, like DP-TUNER will over wright what is on the PCM. Sounds like you may have something like the Superchip tuner, tune on the PCM. If you know someone with a Superchip, you could see if your truck is VIN locked to a tuner.

 

When I first got the truck I was pretty surprised with how "lively" it was... then I got a DP Tuner F5, just because, and it was better. But with both the DP & PHP, the "stock" setting is most definitely "weaker" than running the PCM alone.

I "think" the tuner overrides whatever is on the PCM, and I have posted the question in PHP's forum as well. My chip is currently at PHP getting new tunes, better suited to my driving. Custom tuning is waiting until I (maybe) do injectors & different turbo.

 

DP Tuner's "stock" isn't the same as the the programming on the PCM with the chip removed. I think you're fine Brendan, just quit monkeying around with chips and drive that beast

 

I have a PHP chip, too.
Stock PCM and stock chip settings are exactly the same for me.
I recommend talking with Bill, just to be safe.
For myself, if I wasn't POSITIVE that the truck was unmodified when I bought it, I would have had the PCM reflashed just so I knew that it was stock.
Software is a funny thing, a lot of what it does is based on assumptions of certain values and if those values are skewed, then it's GIGO.

 

Yeah, like you don't tinker with your beast! She's 100% stock, right? RIIIIIIGGGGHHHHTTTT..... haha


GIGO? Ya got me on that one Dan. I agree with you though, but I only drove her for about 2 weeks before putting on the DP, then the PHP went on 5 minutes after the DP came off. This is the first I've driven her just off the PCM since I bought her.

I posted on PHP's forum & called them yesterday... they must be super busy though. Haven't heard back from them yet

 

Yup, 100% stock. Wouldn't have it any other way.

 

This is what a programmer does to your "stock" PCM flash:

The programmer reads and loads the existing EEPROM binary into itself.

The programmer then "builds" a new program by inserting modified values into the binary it just read. The locations of the new values are 100% dependent on what the hex code of the PCM is.

It then erases the EEPROM depending on whether or not you want to "upgrade" tunes.

Lastly, it loads the modified binary back into the PCM EEPROM.

What I am getting at is that no matter what programmer tune may be loaded into your PCM, it is nothing "different" than what your PCM code already is. An off the shelf programmer will not turn your NVK4 into a PMT1 (Same DPC 422 family). Nor will it turn an OBS code into a SuperDuty code (very different family).

Any binary address that is accessed internal to the PCM that has been altered with a programmer WILL BE totally bypassed with a chip.

As for your questions (these are the same answers that are given at the PHP forum);

1. Yes. There are numerous ways to read the existing memory from the PCM. There won't be any data as far as what brand of programming it is, but the data can be compared to a stock file to get an approximate HP level.

2. No. The only thing that really matters is the actual hardware (PCM). No matter what "tune" has been flashed to the PCM, the PCM is still the governing factor on what tuning will be used for the chip.

3. It's not going to matter. Just know that you're not stock when you're "chipless".

 

OK, maybe I'm not getting what you're saying, so let me put it this way:

In some trucks (not sure if this applies to our 7.3s or not) you can 'stack' programmers.

My PCM obviously has some programming on it that is not Ford's recipe.

So, by putting my PHP chip "on top" of that, is that effectively stacking? Does whatever tuning that is on the PCM somehow serve as the base for the PHP chip's tunes?

 

Cody will be able to answer your questions much better than I can.
GIGO= Garbage In Garbage Out.

.
Pretty much other than the standard enhancements.
Gauges, Exhaust, AIS intake, Bellowed Up-pipes.
The fuel supply system is different in that the fuel pump is relocated to the fuel tank and I have the first CCK kit ever in existance.
What I've done to the truck is simply make sure that the foundations for good reliable power are 100% good and that is the reason that it runs so strong on just the stock tune.
Trying to chip a malfunctioning truck to regain power back is the wrong approach and I could not begin to guess how many people try that before addressing the true cause of the problem.
I'm not saying that you are doing that, but going on what I read in peoples posts, sometimes I think that is happening.
People complain about thier truck being a dud unless it's chipped and I have no argument with thier opinion, but I can pull my 13.5k trailer up a 6% grade in stock tune and only have to shift down once.
.

 

No. Completely false.

By putting a 4-bank "chip" on the back of the PCM, you are effectively bypassing the PCM's internal memory. 1 and 2 bank chips operate differently but nobody offers those anymore.

There is a contact on the J3 connector (where the chip plugs in) called the "RESET" line. When grounded, the internal EEPROM is (for lack of a better term) shut off. There is nothing read from the PCM's memory when a chip is plugged in.

 

Kewl! Thanks for the detailed response!

 

Cody, I cannot rep you for this thread but you deserve it.