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  #1  
Old 07-05-2009, 12:24 AM
JRROTH1 JRROTH1 is offline
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2004 F150 Engine Rough / FLashing CEL

While on the road last night, my 2004 Supercrew began to shudder / misfire on acceleration. The check engine light came on and went off several times until finally it started flashing. I had it towed (AAA) home to be on the safe side. My scanner gave me the following:
Codes:
P0022 - Cam Position Actuator A - Bnk 2 Timing Over-Retard
P0171 - System To Lean Bank 1
P0300 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0305 - Cylinder 5 Misfire Detected
P0307 - Cylinder 7 Misfire Detected
P0308 - Cylinder 8 Misfire Detected
P0316 - Misfire Detected 1st 1000 Revs
P2198 - Stuck Rich 2/1

Pending Codes:
P0306 - Cylinder 6 Misfire Detected

Somehow I don't think I have multiple coil/spark plug failures all of a sudden. Mileage is 66,000 - still on the original plugs. Fuel filter was recently changed out.

I was thinking it might be the corresponding VCT solenoid (Bank 2) since apparently all bank 2 cylinders are affected.

Does this seem llike a logical approach or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance -
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  #2  
Old 07-05-2009, 12:38 AM
afc2001 afc2001 is offline
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Not sure if this will help but here goes. I bought an 08 super crew with 7000km on it. after I put another 8000KM on it i had simular problems. As it is under warrenty I took it into the dealer and they replaced the #8 coil but it was still doing it (not sure what the codes were). they replaced the wiring harness and everything seems to be good now. Hope this gives you some help.
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  #3  
Old 07-05-2009, 11:45 AM
JRROTH1 JRROTH1 is offline
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Looking into this further - it seems that a stuck fuel injector may be another possibility although I haven't seen where that has pulled the P0022 code in. This creates another dilemma (I think):

In order to get the codes, etc. I had to turn the key to the on position. I believe the fuel pump runs with the key in the "on" position. To make matters worse - while troubleshooting - I had to leave unexpectedly due to a work matter and accidently left the key in the "on" position for about 8 hours. When I returned, there was a clicking sound coming from behind the air filter and also from below the rear window. The battery was pretty dead so I disconnected it and charged it overnight.


(1) Assuming a stuck open injector - just checking the codes would result in filling the cylinder with fuel (let alone leaving it for 8 hours!!). If I try to start it now - I expect it would result in a hydraulic lock and possible damage. How do I go checking for and remidying this situation?

(2) What were the raspid clicking noises I was hearing with the battery virtually dead?
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Old 07-05-2009, 11:35 PM
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The fuel pump only runs for 2 seconds when you put the key in 'on'. It doesn't run again until the computer senses that the engine has started. This is common to all fuel injected systems -- and has been for a while now.

If yours kept running it would indicate a bad computer.

I don't have any new Fords, but I've seen other posts that indicate that there are relays that drop in and out when the batt is real low. I can see that. The relay drops out, and the batt has a little less load, so it pulls back in....


Good Luck
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  #5  
Old 07-06-2009, 09:25 PM
JRROTH1 JRROTH1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ford2go View Post
The fuel pump only runs for 2 seconds when you put the key in 'on'. It doesn't run again until the computer senses that the engine has started. This is common to all fuel injected systems -- and has been for a while now.

If yours kept running it would indicate a bad computer.

I don't have any new Fords, but I've seen other posts that indicate that there are relays that drop in and out when the batt is real low. I can see that. The relay drops out, and the batt has a little less load, so it pulls back in....


Good Luck
Thanks Ford2go -

I did the following this evening:
(1) started it up - ran rough at idle while parked, smoothed out a little at >1200 rpm but still seemed like it was missing a cylinder. I let it run about 5-6 minutes. Only 1 "pending" code was picked up (P2198 - O2S Stuck Rich 2/1)

(2) Then I cleared the codes and took it for a 1/4 mile test drive. It ran rough as I expected (pinged a little) and had very little power. Once again no MIL codes but got the following "pending" codes:
P0022 - Cam Position Actuator A - Bnk 2 Timing Over-Retard
P2198 - O2S Stuck Rich 2/1

(3) Replaced the bank 2 Cam Position Sensor - still ran rough at idle
Replaced bank 1 CPS with old bank 2 CPS - still ran rough at idle.

(4) Let it run about 5 minutes idling and revving up to 1500 rpm. Again no MIL but got the following "pending" codes this time:
P0022 - Cam Position Actuator A - Bnk 2 Timing Over-Retard
P0171 System To Lean Bank 1
P2198 O2S Stuck Rich 2/1

Interesting that no misfire codes came in. Is there a time delay before misfires are logged?

Would it be worthwhile to swap the VCT solenoids to see if the problem switches to bank 1? Or could it just be a stuck injector after all?
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  #6  
Old 07-16-2009, 11:51 PM
JRROTH1 JRROTH1 is offline
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New Information - No spark on Bank 2?

So . . .

I replaced all spark plugs and cleaned the MAF sensor. I also pulled all the fuel injectors and checked for leakage while attached to the fuel rail - none were stuck open or leaking at all. There was no change after all this. I listened to all the fuel injectors while idling and all sounded normal when compared to my '08 Screw. I got curious and began disconnecting COPs one at a time. There was a noticeable change to engine when each bank 1 (passenger side) COP was disconnected. There was NO change when any bank 2 COP was disconnected. I then disconnected 5, 6, and 7 at the same time and the engine continued to run the same (not even the slightest change in sound or rpm)!

Is it possible that the bank 2 COPs are not getting a signal to fire? If so - what would cause that. The only pending code I received was P2198 (Stuck Rich Bank 2 Sensor 1). No misfire codes at all but I'm not sure if they are defeated until engine warm-up.

Any help would be appreciated. I still haven't looked at the bank 2 VCT solenoid.
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  #7  
Old 07-18-2009, 05:04 PM
JRROTH1 JRROTH1 is offline
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Checked the bank 2 (drivers side) exhaust backpressure. Less than 1 psi at idle and at 2000 rpm. The OTC backpressure gauge I have says that >1.25 psi at idle or >4.5 psi at 2500 rpm indicates a plugged cat. It doesn't appear to be a clogged cat by that standard however I am wondering of that is too low a pressure.

I think I'm going to replace all four coils on bank 2 and see what happens. I have read a number of forum posts where multiple coil failures have occurred.

I'd be happy to entertain any other ideas . . . . .
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  #8  
Old 07-18-2009, 05:40 PM
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Seems to me before you go out and spend a bunch of money on coils you could swap a few from the first bank over and see if that changes anything. Let me think about it some more.
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  #9  
Old 07-19-2009, 06:16 PM
Oldguy4 Oldguy4 is offline
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JRROTH1, did you read the post and threads from Breeze12, 'Right bank not firing'? I'm wondering if your code P0022 is the clue. His problem was the cam phazer sensor.
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  #10  
Old 07-19-2009, 07:17 PM
JRROTH1 JRROTH1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy4 View Post
JRROTH1, did you read the post and threads from Breeze12, 'Right bank not firing'? I'm wondering if your code P0022 is the clue. His problem was the cam phazer sensor.
Yes I did. Thanks!

I think Breeze12 meant cam sensor although that is not a $120 part (maybe $50 from Ford). I replaced mine for $25 from Rock Auto but there was no improvement so that's not my problem. To be sure, I put the old one from bank 2 into bank 1 and bank 1 still works fine.
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  #11  
Old 07-20-2009, 10:02 PM
Oldguy4 Oldguy4 is offline
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That's a bummer! Keep us up to date on this. We can all learn something I'm sure.
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Old 07-20-2009, 10:43 PM
JRROTH1 JRROTH1 is offline
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It turns out that Breeze12's problem was fixed by replacing the VCT oil control solenoid, not the cam position sensors.

In my very post, I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRROTH1 View Post
Somehow I don't think I have multiple coil/spark plug failures all of a sudden. Mileage is 66,000 - still on the original plugs. Fuel filter was recently changed out.

I was thinking it might be the corresponding VCT solenoid (Bank 2) since apparently all bank 2 cylinders are affected.

Does this seem like a logical approach or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance -
Lesson learned: Follow your gut!

After replacing the VCT oil control solenoid tonight - I am happy to report that the truck is now running normal. A bad VCT solenoid made sense in the beginning but I had several Ford mechanics talk me out of it because they had never seen one fail . . . I guess that's true since only Ford seems to have them (Part# 3L3Z6M280EA / $118) and I could only locate one in stock in the Richmond, VA area.

Total cost was around $250 for VCT solenoid, new spark plugs, and misc. items and, of course, two weeks !! PLUS - now I have 8 ounces of Permatex® 771 Nickel Antiseize that I probably will never use again . . . .

Thanks to everyone for your help -
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Old 07-21-2009, 05:58 PM
Oldguy4 Oldguy4 is offline
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Your the one that did all the trouble shooting. Good job. We see your not afraid to get in there and try something. But I think the P0022 code was the clue all along, it was just a matter of interpeting and trusting what it said.

Thanks for all your input.
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  #14  
Old 07-22-2009, 01:02 AM
JRROTH1 JRROTH1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy4 View Post
Your the one that did all the trouble shooting. Good job. We see your not afraid to get in there and try something. But I think the P0022 code was the clue all along, it was just a matter of interpeting and trusting what it said.

Thanks for all your input.
I'll admit it was definitely a learning experience! Hopefully someone can use this information and save some troubleshooting time. Fortunately I had the leisure of having an extra vehicle around so I didn't have to rush or pay whatever proce the dealer would have charged. My own experiences and those of others on this board with Ford Service Depts have literally scared me and my wallet into DIY . I don't believe that the mechanics are incompetent (well most aren't) but I think the engines are so complex now which makes diagnostics extremely challenging and time consuming. Unfortunately - we have to pay for the time in most cases, especially when the first fix doesn't work. I'm glad I took the 6 year extended warranty on my '08 Supercrew - and my experiences with the '04 Supercrew will come in handy when that warranty expires !!!

Once again - thanks to all who responded for the help and support . . . .
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Old 03-25-2012, 02:33 PM
PeterTheWolf PeterTheWolf is offline
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Hello,

I have a 2004 F150 5.4L Triton Lariat with 150K on it.
Over the last month I replaced all spark-plugs & COP.
I pull a 4000lb travel trailer with this truck.
Just yesterday I went to camp ground about 30 miles away. The truck ran good and pulled well when I started out and on the highway. Just before I got to my location I stop to get a bit to eat and while pulling into the parking lot the truck started running like crap … timing seemed way off.
I rented an OBD-II scanner and check for codes. P0022 (Intake Camshaft Position Timing – Over-Retarded, Bank 2)
This was the only code I found.

Question:
Would there be anything else I would need to check to confirm that is the VCT (variable camshaft timing) Solenoid?

Or possible something else?

One last thing, I check my oil pressure with a gauge and I am getting 60psi at idle cold and about 55psi once it is warmed up.

Thanks,
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Old 03-25-2012, 02:33 PM
 
 
 
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