I always use the same oil I plan on running for the life time of a engine, Just I change it after the first 500 miles, I use AmsOil ( www.amsoil.com ) myself and never have had a problem. And make sure after the first oil change you also change the Oil filter. and if your runninga Auto tranny and havnt change it out yet, Change it fuild also, the #1 resion tranny fail is do to old worn oiy oil. So why not change it also while your under there.
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If it ante broken dont fix it.. If it is.. hit it with the biggest hammer U can find :P
It all depends on your build. If you installed a solid lifter cam, then Joe Gibbs break-in oil is very good. If it is a hydraulic cam engine, as was said earlier, just use what you are going to run. What I do is after start up and break in period of about 30 minutes, I drain the oil and put fresh in along with a new filter. This removes any debris that might have found it's way into your engine during your build.
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2006 F350 PSD,4x4
2007 Focus
1960 Falcon, 434CJ, 787 hp
non Fords
Highly modified 240Z V8
300ZXT stock
Well For many years I used Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oil...It contains zinc needed for proper cam break in...But a couple of years ago I went over to Shell's Rotella-T Oil as it has more Zinc in it...But I understand..they were even trying to pull the zinc out of it for EPA issue's...Rather they have or not yet I dont know...But a little research on Google will let know if its been change as of yet ...
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Blue Saphire 70 F250 42? in the making/Rollerized C6/4:10 Locker
With a Secret BBF/TBA sometime??
Well For many years I used Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oil...It contains zinc needed for proper cam break in...But a couple of years ago I went over to Shell's Rotella-T Oil as it has more Zinc in it...But I understand..they were even trying to pull the zinc out of it for EPA issue's...Rather they have or not yet I dont know...But a little research on Google will let know if its been change as of yet ...
Russ;
Check out Gibbs break in oil,,, they are recommended by most race shops, including KC. They have if not the highest zinc level, one of the highest. I did extensive research on this for my engine and found Gibbs to be the break in oil of choice,, at least for now. Who knows what will be the best down the road.
Joe Gibbs BR30 does not have to be preheated. It worked for me.
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2006 F350 PSD,4x4
2007 Focus
1960 Falcon, 434CJ, 787 hp
non Fords
Highly modified 240Z V8
300ZXT stock
The important factor is the level of ZDDP- and a common misconception is that it's the zinc content that's most important, but it's actually the phosphorus in the ZDDP that's the main anti-wear agent. The phosphorus (and sulfer) in oil fouls the catalytic converters, and the levels were pulled down to comply with the new cat longevity standards. Also, solid or hydraulic has absolutely nothing to do with it, it's bad for any flat-tappet cam that functions by sliding, instead of having rollers, and the heavier the spring loading on larger cams, the worse the problem is. For your old flat-tappet engines, avoid any oil with a GF-4 rating, that's the reduced ZDDP versions- and even some of the old standards like Rotella-T are now there. I bought up a bunch of "good" Rotella before the change, you might still find some on the shelves, but watch out for the new GF-4 stuff. A couple of the Mobil1 lines are still good, the 15-50 has 1300 PPM ZDDP, about $5/ quart, and the ringer is the Mobil1 motorcycle oils, 10-40 for sportbikes and 20-50 for V-twins, have 1700 PPM- although they are around $9/ quart. Brad Penn is real good, at 1800 PPM- my neighbor across the street that owns the local speed shop uses Brad Penn with a single bottle of Lucas break-in supplement added for flat-tappet break-in exclusively- but then you need to stay with a high ZDDP oil for the life of the cam, not just for break-in. The Brad Penn (which is dino oil) retails around $5.50/ quart at the shop. Nice thing about the Mobil1 offerings, you can get them at Wally World. VR-1 is still good, as it's sold as off-road oil and is not GF-4 compliant.
Time for Google to go into overdrive...
The important factor is the level of ZDDP- and a common misconception is that it's the zinc content that's most important, but it's actually the phosphorus in the ZDDP that's the main anti-wear agent. The phosphorus (and sulfer) in oil fouls the catalytic converters, and the levels were pulled down to comply with the new cat longevity standards. Also, solid or hydraulic has absolutely nothing to do with it, it's bad for any flat-tappet cam that functions by sliding, instead of having rollers, and the heavier the spring loading on larger cams, the worse the problem is. For your old flat-tappet engines, avoid any oil with a GF-4 rating, that's the reduced ZDDP versions- and even some of the old standards like Rotella-T are now there. I bought up a bunch of "good" Rotella before the change, you might still find some on the shelves, but watch out for the new GF-4 stuff. A couple of the Mobil1 lines are still good, the 15-50 has 1300 PPM ZDDP, about $5/ quart, and the ringer is the Mobil1 motorcycle oils, 10-40 for sportbikes and 20-50 for V-twins, have 1700 PPM- although they are around $9/ quart. Brad Penn is real good, at 1800 PPM- my neighbor across the street that owns the local speed shop uses Brad Penn with a single bottle of Lucas break-in supplement added for flat-tappet break-in exclusively- but then you need to stay with a high ZDDP oil for the life of the cam, not just for break-in. The Brad Penn (which is dino oil) retails around $5.50/ quart at the shop. Nice thing about the Mobil1 offerings, you can get them at Wally World. VR-1 is still good, as it's sold as off-road oil and is not GF-4 compliant.
Time for Google to go into overdrive...
Most of what you say is correct, except that solid lifter cams normally have higher spring pressures than hydraulic cams "higher lift" , and is why you remove the inner valve springs on break in. The higher spring pressures are a large contributing factor to cam lobe failure on initial break in on solid lifter flat tappet cams. Each of us have our favorite oil, and after break in I like Valvoline racing oil for my engines. BR30 does not need a supplement. After break in, I will add Comp Cams wear additive with each oil change with the Valvoline oil.
As you know, the cam manufacturers blame the oil, and the oil companies blame the cam manufacturers.
20 years ago, when I was racing, we did not have this problem.
Barry would be a good source of information. He builds more FE engines in a month than the rest of us combined build in a year.
Bottom line, if you use a low lift hydraulic cam, with single springs, you should be fine with a break in additive like Comp Cams 150 or equivalent with your oil of choice for break in.
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2006 F350 PSD,4x4
2007 Focus
1960 Falcon, 434CJ, 787 hp
non Fords
Highly modified 240Z V8
300ZXT stock
I was told by a local race shop near me to use the Brad Penn because it has a high level of zinc and it is also a detergent oil that will clean the dirt and gunk out. They recomended to run it around the block a few times then dump it. Then run it a couple hundred miles and dump that and you'll be ready to run 3000 miles. I run the 15-40W in mine.
Bottom line, if you use a low lift hydraulic cam, with single springs, you should be fine with a break in additive like Comp Cams 150 or equivalent with your oil of choice for break in.
Well, back in the day has nothing to do with this- modern car engines have roller tappets that do not need the large quantities of anti-wear components like phosphorus, and allow the reduced levels that will let the cats pass the new standards- that's why all this came up in the first place, the new cat longevity standards. ALL flat-tappet cams are affected, as they all work on sliding friction- as I said, "and the heavier the spring loading on larger cams, the worse the problem is"- but the problem DOES exist on low-load cams, just not as bad, and it makes no difference if it's solid or hydraulic, it's any flat-tappet, sliding friction design. Higher-loaded cams will wear faster, but all will be affected. Some also seem to feel that after break-in, the problem will go away, and you can run "your oil of choice" or "favorite oil" after that- running non- GF-4, high ZDDP level oils is needed for the life of the flat-tappet cam, not just at break-in, where an extra shot of special break-in oil is also a good idea. GF-4 oil is not intended for, or good for, flat-tappet cams. And pulling the inner springs for break-in of large flat-tappet cams- solid or hydraulic- is even more important now than ever- but ALL flat-tappet cams are affected, and I'd hate to see someone prematurely wear out a cam from following incorrect information.
There must be some real real importance to this issue,as Scnieder says not to use their formula 3 until ring seat has taken place ( about 1000 miles) due to to fact that there is so much lubrication that rings may NOT seat.I don't thing Wallyworld oil has that problem.
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gearhed1971
1973 f100-390 4wd
1963 falcon-under construction
1951chebby special deluxe(for sale)-SOLD!!!
daily beater poontang sunfire
Well this is an FE room , and were not talking about the new Fang Dango Cams of todays factory motors... and i have built motors for 40 years..maybe not as good at 14 ..but none the less they ran great.. and now I might do 2 or 3 a year...and up intil 5 years ago always used VR-1..without can failure ! (NONE) and now have about 10 builds both Chev and ford that have ranged from just over 300hp to 700hp and use Rotella-T without failure.. and the vehicles I deal with dont even know what a Cat is and never will.. So this is like apple's to oranges ! And of course i like solid roller cams..even for street use...The days of checking lash every few pass's is gone ! unless your running a top fuel car ? which I dont think any of us in this room are ? Maybe wrong?
Well I'am not getting into a pissing contest here...you guys do your research..and follow the Cam manufacturers latest instructions...As the last thing they want is a bad name being put out on there cams... Use plenty of cam lube...Some Rotella-T...Fire the motor get your timing set where she will run at least..and keep the rpm's up above 2000rpm and very it every so often up to say 3500 or so and then back to 2500 and back up again for 20 to 25 mins..Make sure the engine runs as close to operating temp as possible.... Drain the blood from the pan...change oil filter...
Once the motor is in the Vehicle....with fresh Rotella-T and a fesh filter..your good for about 500 miles.... For a street motor I change the oil an filter at 500, 1000, and then 2000 miles... then I run synthetic (Mobil 1) for a street motor or Royal Purple on a Street /strip motor with oil changes after every track race...up to 2500 miles of street use..
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Blue Saphire 70 F250 42? in the making/Rollerized C6/4:10 Locker
With a Secret BBF/TBA sometime??
Russ, I guess the confusing part is that the new longevity standards for the cats are the cause of the problem- the GF-4 rated oils for the new engines have most of the anti-wear ZDDP pulled OUT of them to comply with the new standards- and will work OK with the factory (fairly small) roller cams- but are not suitable for use with flat-tappet cams. GF-4 oils are only allowed about 800ppm (sometimes referred to in the spec papers as ".08% by weight") ZDDP- not adequate for flat tappet cams, 1000 the bare minimum, 1200 considered pretty good. A couple of the Mobil1 products have actually had more ZDDP added recently, the 15W-50 and the motorcycle oils got bumped 100ppm. I stand by my statement, the GF-4 oils are not good for your flat-tappet cam, even a mild grocery getter- you can't just use "the oil of your choice"- as you said, gotta do the research (which I have, extensively) to make sure your "pet" oil hasn't been neutered. And the last time I checked, VR-1 was still good-to-go, as it isn't a GF-4 compliant oil, and is marketed for "off-road use"
Well Gene, It does get confusing even for us old Gearheads... Like i had mentioned I had used VR-1 for many a year without issue's... Then the Rumor started around the VR-1...and I had to do some research...As these SBF I was building were for a Rod Shop in town.. Where ther ePny Club only runs Semi Built to Stroker 302's.. So thats when I made the switch to the Rotella-T and have never looked back..
But 20 years ago I did have to deal with all that Cal Smog crap out there.. I knew the head smog guy at one of the inspection stations down in Comton SoCal...As I built the motor for his River Boat...and he had told me one day in my shop that nothing I had on the engine stands would pass his emiision test at the Station...
Well that sounded like a bet to me !! I was just getting ready to drop a very well built BBC into my own 72 long bed...even tho it wasnt held to the smog standards...I ran it thru his shop anyway just to prove a point ! I was running a Torker II intake with an 850cfm holley, 10.5 to CR...with an old melling Hyd. Cam..only .525" lift and a 306/308* duration...Bottom balanced..Heads ported with big valves.. 2' full length headers..thru collector bolt on Race muffs..
Well needless to say..they heard me coming a mile away..the motor idled at 1100rpm..I pulled it up to the Computers..and they crawled under and put in the sniffers...this whole time my Bud was shaking his head and saying NO way !! Well the puter spit out the paperwork..and I saw the Green light go on at my staion...and the other techs that were watching all there jaws dropped !! and they started laughing !!
I walked up to see what the paper work said...and he just laughed !! And siad I wouldnt have believed it had "I" not done the test !! That thing burns cleaner than most of the new cars and truck that come in here less 2 years old...So needless to say that paper became framed and went up in my office !! LOL...and hell it did have but about 45 mins. engine stand time on it...and a 20 mile round trip to the smog station ! LOL..
Anyway..Didnt meen to write a book here...I just wanted to put that little story out the about all there Factory smog crap we get charged for..Remind me one of these days I'll tell ya a good one about the old NOX device we had to use out there back in the 70's...
~Russ
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Blue Saphire 70 F250 42? in the making/Rollerized C6/4:10 Locker
With a Secret BBF/TBA sometime??
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at 14 ..but none the less they ran great.. and now I might do 2 or 3 a year...and up intil 5 years ago always used VR-1..without can failure ! (NONE) and now have about 10 builds both Chev and ford that have ranged from just over 300hp to 700hp and use Rotella-T without failure.. and the vehicles I deal with dont even know what a Cat is and never will.. So this is like apple's to oranges ! And of course i like solid roller cams..even for street use...The days of checking lash every few pass's is gone ! unless your running a top fuel car ? which I dont think any of us in this room are ? Maybe wrong?
