At the risk of sounding arrogant or antagonistic here's my opinion on the whole diesel emission argument; The feds or whatever tree huggers thought of this rule can kiss my a$$. I paid over $40,000 for this thing, and if I want to hack the dpf off then I will. And if there's some law enforcement agency with nothing better to do than come after me for doing that, then they can kiss it too. Solve the real world problems and stop acting like Barney Fife over something so stupid. And let the smoke fly!
Now I don't want to start a fight here and I am not a lawyer. I did however work for the federal govt for 40 years and I read govermenteeze pretty well. I would like you to cite me a reference for that statement because I can't find it. I'm not saying it's not true because I don't know. But I can't find any federal code (law) that prohibits a "non-commerical" interest from modifying a diesel vehicle. Further, I can't imagine a local or state LEO enforcing a federal code. Most of the auto pollution codes I'm able to find are state laws and are based on if you did or didn't pass a state emmisions test. Now, when you get into commerical vehicles that's a whole different deal but even that stuff is mostly enforced by the state DOT. Anyway, I've been researching for a week or more now and I can't find it so please point me in the right direction. Thanks
Read section 7521, the intro to the clean air act. It states that the act applies to pretty much any regulation the EPA chooses to impose. In this section, it specifically states how this applies to heavy duty(over 8,500 lb GVW) vehicles. Section 7522 and 7524 it discusses prohibited acts, such as modifying or disabling emissions controls, and the penalties for doing such.
I was wrong, however, on one thing. The fine for an individual shall not exceed $2500 and the fines for a dealer or manufacturer shall not exceed $25,000.
__________________
Tom,
Current truck - 2008 F250 CC 4x4 PSD
Previous Fords:
2007 F150 Screw 4x4
2003 F150 4x4 r/c auto
Read section 7521, the intro to the clean air act. It states that the act applies to pretty much any regulation the EPA chooses to impose. In this section, it specifically states how this applies to heavy duty(over 8,500 lb GVW) vehicles. Section 7522 and 7524 it discusses prohibited acts, such as modifying or disabling emissions controls, and the penalties for doing such.
I was wrong, however, on one thing. The fine for an individual shall not exceed $2500 and the fines for a dealer or manufacturer shall not exceed $25,000.
Well OK that's there but that's been there since 93 for catalytic converters and as far as I know no individual has been sued over that rule. also, you skipped part 7523 which says that the "federal district court" enforces violations of prohibited acts. So, how does the court do that? They sue the violator and assess a penalty. My point is that deleting a DPF is not a violation of law that's going to be enforced by the LEO on the street and it's not like a traffic violation where someone looks under your truck sees a delete pipe and writes you a ticket for $2500.00. The EPA would not spend the time or money to go after an individual for deleting a DPF or removing a catalytic converter.
Also there is part 7549 which excuses enforcement of all of 7522 (a) (3). I haven't read it yet but my suspicion is that it's for non-road use vehicles. If you notice the companys selling DPF delete systems require the buyer to send in some kind of waiver. I haven't seen it yet but my guess is that it's a waiver that says the truck is going to be used on the farm or in the boonies. maybe someone on here who has one can tell us. That waiver probably keeps the business (which epa might go after if it were big enough)from being out of compliance with 7522.
Bottom line for me is that if I want to delete the DPF I'm not gonna worry one bit about getting fined over it. I would worry that the state starts emmision testing diesels and I would have to put it back on. I'll be back when I find part 7549.
__________________ 2008 F350 DRW Lariat/ 4.30 Diff/Titan 60 Gal fuel tank/Bone stock running gear and just a little truck bling.
Well, StanleyZ, your legalese seems excellent...better than mine!
I wasn't looking so much for how they enforce it, I was just looking to see that it was illegal and how much it's supposed to cost the unlucky SOB who they catch...
__________________
Tom,
Current truck - 2008 F250 CC 4x4 PSD
Previous Fords:
2007 F150 Screw 4x4
2003 F150 4x4 r/c auto
Well OK that's there but that's been there since 93 for catalytic converters and as far as I know no individual has been sued over that rule. also, you skipped part 7523 which says that the "federal district court" enforces violations of prohibited acts. So, how does the court do that? They sue the violator and assess a penalty. My point is that deleting a DPF is not a violation of law that's going to be enforced by the LEO on the street and it's not like a traffic violation where someone looks under your truck sees a delete pipe and writes you a ticket for $2500.00. The EPA would not spend the time or money to go after an individual for deleting a DPF or removing a catalytic converter.
Also there is part 7549 which excuses enforcement of all of 7522 (a) (3). I haven't read it yet but my suspicion is that it's for non-road use vehicles. If you notice the companys selling DPF delete systems require the buyer to send in some kind of waiver. I haven't seen it yet but my guess is that it's a waiver that says the truck is going to be used on the farm or in the boonies. maybe someone on here who has one can tell us. That waiver probably keeps the business (which epa might go after if it were big enough)from being out of compliance with 7522.
Bottom line for me is that if I want to delete the DPF I'm not gonna worry one bit about getting fined over it. I would worry that the state starts emmision testing diesels and I would have to put it back on. I'll be back when I find part 7549.
Yes when I ordered my Spartan set up I had to sign and fax them a paper stating that the truck and the setup they were selling me was only going to be used for "Off Road" purposes. That is the loop hole but like you said I can't see them coming after 1 guy for deleting his DPF. There have been lots of stories about that on this site and most guys have heard from a guy that heard it from a guy that heard it from his neighbors dog. I have yet to see any hard truth or supporting facts from anyone that has been caught without their DPF and received a fine. I do beleive the claims from guys that say their warranty has been voided because of the tuners but that is a whole different ball game.
__________________
2008 F350 CC FX4 6.4 PSD
3.73, 20" factory rubber
S&B CAI, Pro Flo Exhaust, 275 & 310hp Spartan Tunes, T-Rex Billet Grille, Billet Side Vent Inserts, 50 Gal Titan Tank, 100 Gal slip tank/tool box combo
Yes when I ordered my Spartan set up I had to sign and fax them a paper stating that the truck and the setup they were selling me was only going to be used for "Off Road" purposes. That is the loop hole but like you said I can't see them coming after 1 guy for deleting his DPF. There have been lots of stories about that on this site and most guys have heard from a guy that heard it from a guy that heard it from his neighbors dog. I have yet to see any hard truth or supporting facts from anyone that has been caught without their DPF and received a fine. I do beleive the claims from guys that say their warranty has been voided because of the tuners but that is a whole different ball game.
That's what I figured the waiver was. Kind of interesting since part of the objectives of the program is to regulate emissions of off road use equipment. Those scare stories are great. There are RV sites with people on them who will swear that the police are out looking for over weight rigs and arresting the drivers and passengers and impounding the rigs. But, like you said it's always someone we heard about.
__________________ 2008 F350 DRW Lariat/ 4.30 Diff/Titan 60 Gal fuel tank/Bone stock running gear and just a little truck bling.
I would definitly junk it. I just did mine in my 08 diesel and the gas mileage is way better, and i really wakes up the truck. I got the evolution edge racing and a 5inch exhaust down pipes back all installed for under 1500
I would definitly junk it. I just did mine in my 08 diesel and the gas mileage is way better, and i really wakes up the truck. I got the evolution edge racing and a 5inch exhaust down pipes back all installed for under 1500
Yeah I would think that your GAS mileage did improve a lot, haha. Made me chuckle when I read that, maybe just because I am really bored at work?? It definately does improve the over all performance of the truck. Hope it works out good for you.
__________________
2008 F350 CC FX4 6.4 PSD
3.73, 20" factory rubber
S&B CAI, Pro Flo Exhaust, 275 & 310hp Spartan Tunes, T-Rex Billet Grille, Billet Side Vent Inserts, 50 Gal Titan Tank, 100 Gal slip tank/tool box combo
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here and I am not a lawyer. I did however work for the federal govt for 40 years and I read govermenteeze pretty well. I would like you to cite me a reference for that statement because I can't find it. I'm not saying it's not true because I don't know. But I can't find any federal code (law) that prohibits a "non-commerical" interest from modifying a diesel vehicle. Further, I can't imagine a local or state LEO enforcing a federal code. Most of the auto pollution codes I'm able to find are state laws and are based on if you did or didn't pass a state emmisions test. Now, when you get into commerical vehicles that's a whole different deal but even that stuff is mostly enforced by the state DOT. Anyway, I've been researching for a week or more now and I can't find it so please point me in the right direction. Thanks
2008 F350 DRW Lariat/ 4.30 Diff/Titan 60 Gal fuel tank/Bone stock running gear and just a little truck bling.
