Do you want to be taken seriously or not? It's up to you.
You clearly don't understand what you're talking about. If you take a portion of a post, out of context, and respond in such a manner then I don't care if you take me seriously or not. It's up to you.
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2005 F250 V10, CC, SB, 4x4, 4.30 axle ratio
1994 Exploder XLT, 4x4, auto trans and Pioneer cd player
All I can say is if you really wanna know what the difference is go get
14,000 lbs of fifth wheel and go pull it up one of Colorado's 12,000
ft mountains and you will see what the difference is. I traded my v10 in for the 7.3 PSD and have never looked backed.
I was wondering if someone would bring elevation into the argument before I made it through the pages of this thread. Although I am ignorant on the subject, I would imagine that the performance numbers related to torque and hp are based on sea level performance, or least very close to it.
I wonder what the performance numbers would be at 10k or above. I once heard that a psd (not sure which model) could hold sea level performance up to about 11,500 feet. Regardless of whether it's true, the red neck logic test would show a larger decrease in performance for the V10 than for a psd, I would guess by a significant amount.
i dont really feel like reading through 20 pages of debate... yes id like a v10 but same ways lately with the flop in whos cheaper at the pumps ive been considering diesels..
now ive seen yall have the hp/tq debate already in the first 2 pages... and looks like its still continuing on this last one...
my question is... Ive ALWAYS!!! heard that with diesels short trips are hard on the engines... where with gassers theyre not.. or at least not as badly on the gassers as on the diesels.. im just wanting to know if its true...
like for instance.. if i were to drive.. say 5-10 miles down the road.. which engines being hurt more from a trip that short?
im gonna bump my question here since people seemed to of missed it being burried at the bottom of the page.. id really like to know if what i was told is true here or just engine myth thats been handed around forever...
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Shawn Official #17 Slackmaster!
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.Elmer Davis
3,000 hours may very well be only 144,000 miles, but that also means 144,000 miles at 3,600 RPMs at high engine load...NOT cruising the freeway at 1,800 RPMs. Now, you V10 folks, when towing heavy how often are you over 3,000 RPMs? Just buy guessing, I'd say the only time you'd be using that kind of power is when pulling hills with lots o' weight. Which is what, over the lifespan of the truck? 5%? 10%? 25% for the very heaviest usage?
So, say a maximum of 25% of the engine's lifespan is spent at high RPMs under high load...the other 75% of the time the engine would not be working very hard. What's the lifespan of the engine for the other 75% of the time?
I'd wager that even if you were towing heavy over hills 50% of the time, which I doubt anyone actually does, the other 50% of engine life would be spent at much lower stress, which would put the usable life of the engine at well over 200,000 miles. How many trucks last much longer than that? Even worked hard, I believe the engine would last longer than the truck.
Exactly.
If ignorant people knew how the manufacturers did their durability tests, then they wouldn't be here arguing about an engine operating within the manufacturer's specified RPM range.
JL
im gonna bump my question here since people seemed to of missed it being burried at the bottom of the page.. id really like to know if what i was told is true here or just engine myth thats been handed around forever...
I have run my F350 for short runs a lot, my shop use to be only 3 miles from my house. It doesnt take but a couple of miles in the morning to get everything up to normal operating temps. I dont think it is good on any engine to start it cold and shut off right away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Langton
Exactly.
If ignorant people knew how the manufacturers did their durability tests, then they wouldn't be here arguing about an engine operating within the manufacturer's specified RPM range.
JL
You sure think you are one smart guy there calling people who attempt to put your service hours to actual miles IGNORANT. No need to go insulting someones intelligence for there comments. It isn't like comments about the a v10's lack of a turbo are brilliant.
the numbers are much lower than the ones you guys are throwing around here, 218hp and from what I can tell from the pic it looks like around 260tq, but I could be wrong on that. There is a stock 6.4 on youtube run at 274hp and 630tq. Seems like ford is inflating the number on the V10 a lot more than the 6.4 so maybe some of the math needs to be re figured there.
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- art k. - Moderator for the Superduty, V10, and FE forums
'01 F250SD SC SB XLT V10 4x4 auto 3.73 Warn hubs Volant CAI, eBay headers and y-pipe - 5-star custom tunes on SCT X3
'97 Cougar XR7 30th Anniv Edition 4.6L
'74 F250 Highboy FE390 deceased! I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again. Just wait and see.
This thread is fun, and somewhat interesting, and I'd like to keep it open.
Throwing "ignorant" around isn't going to help anyone
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- art k. - Moderator for the Superduty, V10, and FE forums
'01 F250SD SC SB XLT V10 4x4 auto 3.73 Warn hubs Volant CAI, eBay headers and y-pipe - 5-star custom tunes on SCT X3
'97 Cougar XR7 30th Anniv Edition 4.6L
'74 F250 Highboy FE390 deceased! I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again. Just wait and see.
You sure think you are one smart guy there calling people who attempt to put your service hours to actual miles IGNORANT. No need to go insulting someones intelligence for there comments. It isn't like comments about the a v10's lack of a turbo are brilliant.
the numbers are much lower than the ones you guys are throwing around here, 218hp and from what I can tell from the pic it looks like around 260tq, but I could be wrong on that. There is a stock 6.4 on youtube run at 274hp and 630tq. Seems like ford is inflating the number on the V10 a lot more than the 6.4 so maybe some of the math needs to be re figured there.
Look up the definition to ignorant, and you'll clearly see it isn't an insult.
If I had called them stupid, that would be an insult.
The "rule of thumb" that was pointed out is not accurate. 3600 rpms is over 60 mph in a 1:1 ratio(NOT in OD). Simple grade school math tells us that 3000 hours x 60 mph = 180K miles.
The dyno runs you're looking at were done in 3rd gear on a Dyno Dynamics dyno. Was the 6.4L you're referencing done on the same dyno in the same manner? I doubt it.
JL
If you can find some other rwhp numbers for a stock V10 post them. Everything I have seen of dyno number off a V10 have been far below the ford numbers. Beings everyone is trying crunch numbers it would be nice if it were actual proven numbers and not just something out a brochure.
I guess if there are no dyno runs out there to compare all the numbers are just speculation.
If you can find some other rwhp numbers for a stock V10 post them. Everything I have seen of dyno number off a V10 have been far below the ford numbers.
Rear-wheel dyno numbers are ALWAYS way below the posted "flywheel" numbers for ANY vehicle.
In a truck, with big tires, heavy driveshaft, heavy tranny, etc, there's a huge loss between the flywheel and the ground.
And that's even before you get into HOW a rear-wheel dyno actually derives those numbers
__________________
- art k. - Moderator for the Superduty, V10, and FE forums
'01 F250SD SC SB XLT V10 4x4 auto 3.73 Warn hubs Volant CAI, eBay headers and y-pipe - 5-star custom tunes on SCT X3
'97 Cougar XR7 30th Anniv Edition 4.6L
'74 F250 Highboy FE390 deceased! I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again. Just wait and see.
I have run my F350 for short runs a lot, my shop use to be only 3 miles from my house. It doesnt take but a couple of miles in the morning to get everything up to normal operating temps. I dont think it is good on any engine to start it cold and shut off right away.
ty man... and i agree short trips on either isnt good on an engine... but with living in a multi-city where i pretty much can get anywhere within a hr made me wonder.. most my drives are 15-20 mins long.. and thats maybe 5-10 miles depending where im going.... and with the way i had always heard it was drives like that were practically suicide for a diesel engine... so thats why i was asking...
__________________
Shawn Official #17 Slackmaster!
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.Elmer Davis
__________________
Shawn Official #17 Slackmaster!
The Republic was not established by cowards; and cowards will not preserve it ... This will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave.Elmer Davis
Rear-wheel dyno numbers are ALWAYS way below the posted "flywheel" numbers for ANY vehicle.
In a truck, with big tires, heavy driveshaft, heavy tranny, etc, there's a huge loss between the flywheel and the ground.
And that's even before you get into HOW a rear-wheel dyno actually derives those numbers
I understand they will be lower and all the variables. The 6.4 dyno I referenced is a completely stock pickup, tires and all. The number it came up with are pretty good when compared to the advertised numbers by ford. From the limited numbers I have found on the V10's they seem like a larger drop than the 6.4. Why I don't know, but I am guessing it is due to the competition in the diesel market.
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