Hello Bill. Welcome back. We have all been missing you.
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Sam
Humble yourself and give thanks to GOD.
<>< Family of 7 saved by Grace <>< 95 CC Dually 3inch downpipe no muffler/cat Edge Programmer, 6637 MOD, 140v 2000 Ranger 4X4 No MODS, yet!
I got a new ( to me ) truck and have been putting all my time in it.
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my V10 will out pull your PSD any day of the week.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmeyer1990 ... but i kept losing service in Victoria's Sectret, so I gave up.
Originally Posted by bghnkinf250
Can I retrofit a catalytic converter to my butt?
Magazine articles trying to sell you a sponsored vendor's parts do lie.
The referenced article was not trying in any way to sell anything,nor was it trying to make any single product stand out in any way. It was an article based on true data collection with hard numbers to publish that cannot be disputed.
JL
The article I am referring to was not trying to push a vendors parts either. It was just saying stuff like the 6.0 has leaky injectors and the vt365 does not, so to fix this problem you need to change the injectors. If it had said, to fix this problem buy a set of Rosewood injectors and your problems will be solved, then yeah, I would agree with you. But a tech article pointing out flaws with an engine and what you can do to remedy those flaws is hardly pushing a vendors product. There are plenty of articles pushing vendors products in the mags, but there are lots of really useful tech articles too.
Has it been properly maintained? Coolant checked and additives added every 15k miles?
Gotta love all those "additives". One (or more) for the fuel, one for the coolant (can't understand why regular coolant won't work fresh from the bottle, but hey, why make "diesel" coolant in the first place? Just sell another "additive" to the diesel folks).
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- art k. - Moderator for the Superduty, V10, and FE forums
'01 F250SD SC SB XLT V10 4x4 auto 3.73 Warn hubs Volant CAI, eBay headers and y-pipe - 5-star custom tunes on SCT X3
'97 Cougar XR7 30th Anniv Edition 4.6L
'74 F250 Highboy FE390 deceased! I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again. Just wait and see.
You cannot argue with time clocks, measured weights and measured distances.
They do not lie. It was an article based on true data collection with hard numbers to publish that cannot be disputed.
JL
Time clocks don't lie, but you can get the data you want by using the test trucks that will give you those results. It's been a while since I have read the article, but if I remember correctly the v10 had 4.30 gears, the dodge diesel had 4.10 gears and the 6.4 had 3.73 gears. Over a race as short as they ran I can take a 5.4 with 4.56 gears and outpull a v10 with 3.73's, but that's not really indicitive of the engines power is it? Put a 4.30 in the 6.4 and see if it plateaus the same way it did with the 3.73. Put a 3.73 in the v10 and see if it keeps pulling strong and gaining speed throughout the entire pull. Run the best against the best if you want a fair test. Not the best equipped against the worst equipped.
The 4.30's help the v10 get the load moving easier and it does need that advantage from a dead stop, but once it gets moving it shouldn't need the gearing since it has all that horsepower. A pretty fair test, if you ask me, is to compare either a v10 with a manual against a psd with an automatic(or a v10 manual against a psd manual but let the v10 use the granny gear and not let the psd) with both having the same rear end gear. The v10 gets the gearing advantage it needs by being able to use the granny gear to get the load moving and get it up in its power band quicker. But once they get moving it all comes down to the engines power.
Gotta love all those "additives". One (or more) for the fuel, one for the coolant (can't understand why regular coolant won't work fresh from the bottle, but hey, why make "diesel" coolant in the first place? Just sell another "additive" to the diesel folks).
I could reply by saying just sell another spark plug or coil pack to a v10 guy......but I will take a logical approach with you this time. You don't HAVE to fun additive in the fuel, but if you do it helps you get better mpg's. If I gave you a bottle that helped you get 3 extra mpg's would you use it? I think so.
Let's look at your coolant argument rationally for a second. The majority of "long life" coolants for gassers lasts about 150k miles. The long life coolant I have in my 7.3 is good for 600k miles with most standard diesel coolants being good for 300k miles. So you'll change your coolant 4 times before I have to change mine once. How many gallons of coolant will you go through in that time? 4-5 gallons per change? 10 dollars per gallon for 5 gallons of coolant times 4 changes comes out to 200 dollars and 4 times the labor. Yeah, that's a lot cheaper and easier than 20-30 dollars worth of additive over the same time period
Gotta love all those "additives". One (or more) for the fuel, one for the coolant (can't understand why regular coolant won't work fresh from the bottle, but hey, why make "diesel" coolant in the first place? Just sell another "additive" to the diesel folks).
Motorcraft gold coolant (the one currently recommended for 7.3's) does not require any additives.
Additives may be required for the fuel because the government removed much of the sulfur. It's sorta beyond our control. However, even when you count the fuel additives, diesel is still cheaper than gas.
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Originally Posted by phillips91
The 4.30's help the v10 get the load moving easier and it does need that advantage from a dead stop, but once it gets moving it shouldn't need the gearing since it has all that horsepower.
The V10 is always going to need lower gears in order to properly access its HP capability. 4.30 V10 vs. 3.73 PSD is probably a pretty fair test.
The V10 is always going to need lower gears in order to properly access its HP capability. 4.30 V10 vs. 3.73 PSD is probably a pretty fair test.
Feel free to agree or disagree, no hard feelings either way, but I look at it like this. The v10's powerband starts at 3250(peak torque) and continues to 4750(peak horsepower). From a dead stop with 3.73's and an auto(or not using granny gear in the manual) the v10 is going to be at a disadvantage up to 3250 rpm in ONE gear. In a drag race you run it to redline and shift. Once the v10 hits its redline and shifts its rpms are going to stay above 3250. It's not going to shift and then go back down to idle and then have to climb back up again. That's why I think it needs the gearing right off the bat to get it to 3250 the first time, but once it's already moving and staying in its powerband it's fair game as far as equal gearing.
The 6.4 makes peak torque at 2k rpm. That's not too far off from where the v10 makes its peak torque. The v10 also makes 80% of its peak torque at 1k rpm, so it's not like comparing it to a chevy that makes peak torque at close to 4k rpm. By comparison my 2v 5.4 makes peak torque/hp at 2500/4100 rpm and my 7.3 at 2000/3000. I look at that like a fair comparison with the same rear end gears and starting in the same tranny gear.
Gearing makes a HUGE difference when it comes to towing. That's why a 7.3 with a 4.10 will pull circles around the exact same 7.3 with a 3.55. It's the exact same engine making the exact same power, but the gearing allows one to put more power to the ground. So the advantage comes from the gearing, not the engine. The 4.30 gearing gives the v10 equal footing coming out of the hole, but once it's already moving it also gives it a huge advantage on how much power it's putting to the ground.
I could reply by saying just sell another spark plug or coil pack to a v10 guy......but I will take a logical approach with you this time. You don't HAVE to fun additive in the fuel, but if you do it helps you get better mpg's. If I gave you a bottle that helped you get 3 extra mpg's would you use it? I think so.
I'd start looking for the fundamental fault that allows some bottle of stuff to add 3 miles per gallon
Or lobby Congress, the oil companies, etc, to put the additive in there in the first place.
Or is it something that they can't LAWFULLY add upfront and you're taking a backdoor band-aid approach?
As for me, on the highway, at least, which I'm assuming is where that 3MPGs comes from... Gas right now here is $2.60/gal. I can get 24 gallons into it when it's on the low-fuel light. At 15 miles a gallon on the highway (I always exceed that, but let's just use that), that's 360 miles on a tank. 3 extra MPGs is 18 MPG, or 432 miles on a tank.
Based on 3MPG, and a full tank, that bottle of additive (if it's one bottle for 24 gallons) would have to cost less then $12.48 each to make it cost-effective. Which it is, given this article/thread:
Of course, there is no magic MPG bullet for gasoline so it's a pointless argument However, as stated in that thread with Diesel Kleen, you get "easier starts, smoother engine and more power" besides the MPG improvement. I already have all that
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As for the coolant additive, I wasn't talking about cost. I was talking about why do you have to do it in the first place? Another "band-aid" if you ask me.
Me, I use propylene glycol based coolant. It won't kill my dog if I leave it in a pail Same corrosion inhibitors as ethylene glycol coolant though. But again, wasn't talking about cost. I was pointing out that it needed to be used in the first place.
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- art k. - Moderator for the Superduty, V10, and FE forums
'01 F250SD SC SB XLT V10 4x4 auto 3.73 Warn hubs Volant CAI, eBay headers and y-pipe - 5-star custom tunes on SCT X3
'97 Cougar XR7 30th Anniv Edition 4.6L
'74 F250 Highboy FE390 deceased! I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again. Just wait and see.
I'd start looking for the fundamental fault that allows some bottle of stuff to add 3 miles per gallon
Based on 3MPG, and a full tank, that bottle of additive (if it's one bottle for 24 gallons) would have to cost less then $12.48 each to make it cost-effective.
Of course, there is no magic MPG bullet for gasoline so it's a pointless argument However, as stated in that thread with Diesel Kleen, you get "easier starts, smoother engine and more power" besides the MPG improvement. I already have all that
As for the coolant additive, I wasn't talking about cost. I was talking about why do you have to do it in the first place? Another "band-aid" if you ask me.
Buy a diesel and drive it around without fuel additive and then try it with it. You'd be surprised to see that it actually works. I use diesel kleen in mine and I can assure you it works. I wouldn't keep buying it if it didn't.
The kind I get is one bottle for 250 gallons. I can't remember the price right off hand, but it's in the $10 dollar range at wal mart.
If it's a pointless argument you shouldn't have brought it up I have smooth starts as well. Where I live it gets down below 0 from time to time and I have never had trouble getting mine to start.
Look up diesels and cavitation on the web and you'll see why we have to use the sca's. Once a year you stick a $2 strip into your coolant and then add a few ounces of the sca to make sure your amounts are where they should be. It's no different than checking your air filter to make sure its clean or checking your coolant level just to make sure you don't have a leak. I check the coolant levels in all my vehicles once a month and I check their protectant level once a year. So it's not like I am going out of my way to check the sca's. Also, I just looked up the coolant level of the super duty and its 8 gallons. I was figuring in 5 gallons when I said you would spend $200 more than me. Add another $30 per change at 4 more changes and thats another $120. So the maintenance costs on the gasser as far as coolant is concerned is $320 more than the diesel. You may not care about the cost, but it does matter to me because gassers always throw up the higher maintenance costs of the diesel as one of the disadvantages.
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I guess 2335 including mine!
