V10 vs psd

[phillips91]

Originally Posted by Johnny Langton The same can be said about the 6.0L and head gaskets,yet the diesel guys all argue that it's not a problem,and it's isolated to certain years,etc. JL I have never argued with the 6.0 guys over that issue, so I can't say what their arguments are or aren't. Just my opinion, but I would say it's something that happens at about the same frequency as the plug blow out on the modulars and that it is a problem for both engines to be doing that. I only personally know of one person that had a bad 6.0, but I know many that have 150k plus miles on them and love them. I do know ford made changes to the 6.0 over the years and the 05-07 models are supposed to be fine. I will also argue that the egr cooler on the 6.0 is a very poor design (design flaw). Coolant is supposed to do just that. COOL the engine. Running 1k degree exhaust gasses over your coolant, turning it to steam, and then pumping it straight into the heads to COOL the heads that are already cooler than the steam is something even a 5 year old knows won't work.

[Krewat]

Originally Posted by phillips91

Consumer affairs has over 300 pages of people saying it happened to them.

The "Consumer Affairs" is a lawyer's website devoted to gathering people looking to sue. It's not a gov't agency.

Originally Posted by phillips91

In the 4.6/5.4 section someone posted a poll wanting to know how many have had a plug blow out. 52 of the 159(32%) people responding said they have had it happen, and that was just 4.6 and 5.4 owners and didn't count multiple blown plugs.

And how many 4.6/5.4 owners are there on this website? It's no where near 159, I can tell you that much.

How many V10'ers voted in that poll?

How many people never ever had a problem with their modular, and never found this website because they didn't have an issue that they needed to search the Internet for?

I can say the same thing about the 6.0, and yet, for some reason, I always hear the reply "Well, you know how it is with Internet sites, it draws the people who've had problems".

Originally Posted by phillips91

That's a very high percentage for that many of voters. Some of those people have had 3 or 4 plugs shoot out on the same engine. It's not something that's going to happen to every single engine or anything, but it is something that happens at a much higher frequency than on other engines.

Yes, but how MUCH higher, statistically?

If you're going to look at polls that have ANYTHING to do with the V10, which is what this thread is about not "all modulars"... look here at a poll from 2007:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/68...that-dont.html

167 voters, only 20 with plug issues.

Much different than the 4.6/5.4 poll, eh? Now, I'm going to be the first to say this. The V10 is probably going to suffer the same number of failures, statistically, so these two polls just show how much POLLS DON'T MEAN SQUAT

[phillips91]

Originally Posted by Krewat

The "Consumer Affairs" is a lawyer's website devoted to gathering people looking to sue. It's not a gov't agency.


And how many 4.6/5.4 owners are there on this website? It's no where near 159, I can tell you that much.

How many V10'ers voted in that poll?

How many people never ever had a problem with their modular, and never found this website because they didn't have an issue that they needed to search the Internet for?

If you're going to look at polls that have ANYTHING to do with the V10, which is what this thread is about not "all modulars"... look here at a poll from 2007:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/68...that-dont.html

167 voters, only 20 with plug issues.

Whether it's a lawyers web site or not, it's still over 300 pages of people complaining about spark plugs blowing out. The purpose of the site doesn't change the results of what happened to them.

I don't know how many 4.6/5.4 owners are on the site. Makes no difference to me either. 32% of the ones that replied said they had plugs blow out. The only way you are going to get 33% of 302/351 owners with a blown plug is if you only ask 3 people and 1 of them had it happen. Put the same poll in every other engine section on here and see what the results are.

I don't know how many v10'ers voted in that poll, but it doesn't really matter does it? Aren't the heads and plugs the same on all three engines? I own a 5.4, so I use the 5.4 section and I see all the plug issues they complain about.

Use the same logic for the 6.0. How many millions of people have 6.0's and never have the need to search the internet for problems? Even though it's problems are on the order of less than 1% I would still argue that it has problems too. I don't try to justify problems just because it happens to "my side" in the debate.

It may not have been a v10 poll, but all 2v modulars had the same head and plug design. If it's a problem for one, it's a problem for them all. Your poll showed 12% had blown a plug. Find me another engine on this entire forum that has at least 150 people vote on it and 12% that have blown a plug. I doubt you would find another one with even 1%.

[brian42]

The last few pages have turned in gas vs. gas .

I feel left out . Nobody has told me how I spent all this extra money up front and in maintenance costs but that the V10 can get up the hill 1.4 seconds ahead of me (for at least a day now )!

I know that nobody loves me and my slow, oil leaking, smelly beast , but I can't believe that nobody is telling me what a mistake I made and how their truck is the one to have .

I miss the unrealistic bench racing from 50-some pages ago . I've heard enough modular debate . BTW, I put 150K on my '97 5.4L F-150 and never had a plug problem...and I gave my tach needle plenty of a workout

[Johnny Langton]

Originally Posted by brian42

The last few pages have turned in gas vs. gas .

Well,somebody's just pissed off that he couldn't convince some of us that improper maintenance and hamfist installation is a defect in another thread,so it spilled over into this one.
JL

[phillips91]

Originally Posted by Johnny Langton

Well,somebody's just pissed off that he couldn't convince some of us that improper maintenance and hamfist installation is a defect in another thread,so it spilled over into this one.
JL

I'm not pissed that you don't think there is a problem. I just don't understand how you can bury your head in the sand and pretend like their isn't a problem in the first place. If I go to the 6.0 forum and I see thread after thread after thread of people complaining about blown head gaskets, then I am going to assume there is a problem there and I need to do some research on it before buying one. Then if I do a web search on 6.0 head gaskets and it brings up hundreds of pages talking about the problem and how to fix it, then it is going to further my belief that the 6.0 has those problems. If I go to the 7.3 forum and I don't see a single thread about problems with head gaskets and my web search brings up nothing either, then I am also going to assume(correctly) that the 6.0 has more problems with the head gaskets than the 7.3. Not many people(even you v10 guys) would argue with my logic on that one when deciding whether the 7.3 or 6.0 has more head gasket problems. You just can't seem to apply that same logic to your own engine.

If the problem is simply people not knowing how to change spark plugs properly then between 12-32% of modular owners, ford technicians and regular mechanics can't do something as simple as unscrew one plug and screw in the new one. It happens to engines that have never had the plugs changed, plugs changed by ford dealers, plugs changed at home by FTE members and plugs changed by regular mechanics. Can that many people with various degrees of training all be that incompetant?

[Johnny Langton]

Originally Posted by phillips91

Can that many people with various degrees of training all be that incompetant?

You'd be simply amazed at the incompetence I've seen from the likes of ASE and Ford "Master" certified technicians. I speak from real world experience (not useless web searches) with an entire fleet of 2V modulars used everyday in what Ford would consider "heavy duty" service. There has not been a single instance of a plug problem in MILLIONS of miles driven. These trucks range from '98-'07 models. These trucks get driven everyday towing and hauling material all over this area.
JL

[phillips91]

Originally Posted by Johnny Langton

You'd be simply amazed at the incompetence I've seen from the likes of ASE and Ford "Master" certified technicians. I speak from real world experience (not useless web searches) with an entire fleet of 2V modulars used everyday in what Ford would consider "heavy duty" service. There has not been a single instance of a plug problem in MILLIONS of miles driven. These trucks range from '98-'07 models. These trucks get driven everyday towing and hauling material all over this area.
JL

You would also be simply amazed at the amount of real world success I have seen with the 6.0 as well. Millions of combined miles without one single problem. Trucks that are put through hell on a daily basis(oil field roads), maxed out gvwr's, left idling for 10-15 hours at a time on our locations, only shut off to change the oil, etc, and not one single problem. Does that mean that the 6.0 doesn't have any problems with head gaskets? Not every 6.0 is going to have a problem with the head gasket and not ever modular is going to have problems with the plugs, but both of them are going to have more problems in those areas than their predecessors.

Also, your "entire fleet" of modulars is only a handful out of the tens of millions of modulars on the road. If only one half of one percent of modulars shoot a plug(using your 10 million romeo modulars article) then that is still 50,000 that have shot a plug. That means 9,950,000 of them have not. That's not a huge percentage, but it's still probably 49k more than all of fords other v8s combined. Whether it's a design flaw with the head or a design that causes even the most careful person to put a plug in wrong, it never should have made if off the assembly line.

[T8R]

You know something is wrong when even Bill seems to have lost interest. I suspect I'm not far behind him. A separate thread would probably suit this conversation better. For those of us wondering how many pages the V10 vs PSD bench racing could go on.... it seems to have fizzled. Still, 150 pages of "my truck is better than you truck".... was impressively entertaining until recently, not to mention a few guys taking a swing at math and *cough* statistics *cough*. Sorry, dirty word around some parts. :-)

Anyone want to volunteer to start the new thread?
(pronounced in an SNL Sean Connery accent)
Suggested thread titles:
1) V10 vs V10
2) 2v vs 3v
3) I drive a diesel... what's a modular?
4) Why did I buy a V10?
5) But I like my V10....
6) I could pull 10k lbs up a hill with a bumper hitch faster than a PSD... without that plug... and still have 1 more cyl than your PSD. (If Bill were to start the thread.)
7) Your mechanic is stoopid.
8) Your engineering is crap.
9) My other ride is your mom.
(Inappropriate for this section because your mom is not a Superduty or Excursion.)
10) I'm glad my PSD doesn't have spark plugs.

[Johnny Langton]

Originally Posted by T8R

A separate thread would probably suit this conversation better.

The was/is a separate thread in another section.
JL

[phillips91]

Originally Posted by brian42

The last few pages have turned in gas vs. gas .



BTW, I put 150K on my '97 5.4L F-150 and never had a plug problem...and I gave my tach needle plenty of a workout

It's not so much gas vs gas as it is saying that the v10 hasn't been touched by the hand of God like most of the v10 guys think. V10 guys bash the 6.0 in the gas vs diesel debate because a small percentage of them have a problem that requires taking a head off, but they take up for the v10 and say that at the worst it's problem requires you to take a head off. hmmm, sounds a lot like the solution for fixing the 6.0's problem. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't do drilling and thread tapping into a hole that goes directly into my cylinder. If I have a plug blow out, the head is coming off. If a 6.0 has a bad head gasket, the head is coming off. Different problem, same solution.

There are 4 modulars in my family and none of us have had a problem with the engine either. None of us have had to change the plugs in them yet though. I hope Johnny is right and that it is a problem due to installation, because when I change them I know they will be put in correctly. Lot's of people claim to have put them in correctly and they still blow out, so who knows.

[phillips91]

Originally Posted by T8R

9) My other ride is your mom.
(Inappropriate for this section because your mom is not a Superduty or Excursion.)

10) I'm glad my PSD doesn't have spark plugs.

Well, it all depends on just how big their mom is

The next one could also apply to the v10

[phillips91]

Originally Posted by T8R

A separate thread would probably suit this conversation better.

Also, I do find that this conversation suits the original topic. Any time the gas vs diesel debate comes up the gas guys always start talking about the durability of the v10 and how crappy the 6.0 is because it sometimes blows a head gasket. Both problems will leave you sitting on the side of the road. Both problems should require you to take the head off to be fixed properly. And both problems happen at a frequency much higher than normal. Bill should be especially concerned about it too, because it's not much fun pulling a head on a van. Unless they have made easier access to the engines than on the 86 I had.

[msgtord]

I began reading this thread because it deals with the very problem I have been wrestling with for some time. Which to buy, gas or diesel?

Thanks to all who provided good solid arguments on both sides, now I am faced with a new decision.

Which handgun to use to blow my brains out!

[phillips91]

Originally Posted by msgtord

Which handgun to use to blow my brains out!

Actually I think that was covered about 10 to 20 pages back too......