2nd DPF in 6,000 miles??????

caprang · #1 (**permalink**) 06-25-2009, 11:20 PM

I had the black tail pipes and new DPF installed around 3,000 miles. Everything was fine after that until I got the reflash done. My mpg have dropped to the point that I only get 12 mpg traveling at a weak 65 mph. Im lucky to see 8 mpg with a 10k load behind it.
I have been back to the dealer twice. 1st time got the "Ford doesnt rate them for mpg" response. Maybe not but please explain the 50% drop in mpg. Something is obviously different. I asked for a few specific things to be checked like the fuel trims and supposedly they did all that and my truck is 100% perfect.
So a week ago I notice my tail pipes are completely black again. What? I cleaned them out real good just to be sure and drove 290 miles with a trailer. I had 1 regen during this trip, it was all highway, level, and I was traveling 68 mph getting 7.8 mpg. When I got home I checked the tail pipes and they are black again. Not gray or dusted, but black, just like a regular diesel would be.
I plan to go to a different dealer this time but I am completely frustrated and not real confident that my outcome is going to be any different.

If anyone has ideas about what might be going on I would love to hear it. There is no way I have cracked 2 DPF's in 6k miles without something else being wrong.

senix · #2 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 06:27 AM

not sure what else it could be either at this point. I seems to be going into regen about what I would expect, which indicates to me that all the sensors and fueling are ok.

How is your oil level? is that ok or is it creeping up? Leaking injectors?

What about disconecting the batteries for a few minutes then re-connecting? May force the trans and everything to re-learn.

I would certainly try a different dealer too.

trfdfirefighter · #3 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 08:28 AM

you said they changed the dpf, but did they check/change out the condition of the cat? also it may be a bad air/fuel ratio or something in that neighborhood. i would also have them check out the turbo's. alot of times a drop in mpg and or power is result of bad turbo timing or a turbo going out or about to go out. which will also cause alot of sooting.

ruschejj · #4 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 12:56 PM

Going way out on a limb here. I read somewhere that the DPF's are "pre-conditioned" at the factory. Any chance that replacement/rebuilt DPF's are not?

Here's an idea to try to get some service attention: Unplug one of the EGT sensors, drive until you throw a code, plug it back in. Maybe they will inspect your truck a little better?

Not exactly honest and I don't want you to damage anything that could be major, just an idea.

smotrs · #5 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 03:44 PM

The DPF's are a piece of crap to begin with. I mean, come on, I know CAT's and Mufflers need to be replaced over time, but when this thing does it's gonna cost us $3K to replace?

Back on topic, sounds like you got a second bad DPF. I've heard it happening but not often. I like the EGT sensor idea ruschejj suggested though. May get them to look a little harder if there's a code in place.

69cj · #6 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 05:33 PM

See if you have a dealer that specializes in trucks. For instance our local dealer has 4 diesel techs. At least they have other techs to confer with when a problem child comes in.

WhiteEx · #7 (**permalink**) 06-27-2009, 09:36 AM

I wonder if the first dealer actually changed the DPF.

vloney · #8 (**permalink**) 06-27-2009, 09:12 PM

Yep! The LAST thing you change because of sooty pipes is a DPF. They are caused by a too rich condition.

Lead Head · #9 (**permalink**) 06-27-2009, 09:35 PM

Any soot at all in the pipe means a cracked DPF. There doesn't seem any specific thing that causes a cracked DPF. Too much soot would just plug it up. I'm guessing it is from manufacturing defects, and the very high regen temperatures just cause it to crack.

caprang · #10 (**permalink**) 06-27-2009, 09:58 PM

I asked the dealer to check the fuel trims and print them for me. Of course they said they checked them, they were just fine, but forgot to print them.

I dont think its making oil but A) the dipstick is impossible to read and B) I only have 1,600 miles on the oil change.
I drove 320 miles yesterday with no passengers, no trailer, nothing in the bed. I stayed right at 65 the whole way. It was 98% flat but on the rare occasion I had a slight incline I would let the mph slow to 55-60 rather than give it more pedal. I managed to get 15 mpg which is the best MPG since the reflash.
The embarassing part is that a friend was following me in a 2002 Dirtymax. He only has a 22.5 gallon tank and I needed fuel before he did.
I had 1 real short regen at the very end of the trip and the tail pipes are black again.
Im calling a different dealer on Monday and if I can learn anything I will gladly share. I think vloney hit the nail on the head a long time ago suggesting a rich condition and fuel trim levels but I need to find a dealer that will actually check for more than standard codes.

vloney · #11 (**permalink**) 06-27-2009, 10:43 PM

They need to research any thing that will force the pcm to overfuel (the fuel trims would show that). Look for leaking seals in the turbo (might show as well inside the cac tubes). And look for fuel leaks internal, and external (cant rule that out for fuel mileage issues)

emscoor · #12 (**permalink**) 07-02-2009, 04:11 PM

I have taken my truck into two different dealers with loss of power, soot on the tailpipes and both dealers have stated that there is nothing wrong with the truck. No codes are seen, it has good boost and so on. There is no load on the truck and just driving the truck there is black smoke coming from the pipes like older diesels. Question I have at this point is what now. The second dealer is the largest in the state.

Lead Head · #13 (**permalink**) 07-02-2009, 04:32 PM

Your DPF is shot, you need to get it replaced. You could just always just send the EPA an e-mail - http://www.epa.gov/epahome/comments3.htm and ask them if its okay that your new "clean diesel" truck is smoking, print out their response and show it to the dealerships.

You may also want to try contacting Ford directly.

vloney · #14 (**permalink**) 07-02-2009, 07:40 PM

1 APP% Accelerator Pedal Position
2 APP_MODE Accelerator Pedal Position
3 BARO (psi) Barometric pressure
4 DPF (psi) Diesel Particulate Filter
5 DPF_REGEN DPF Regeneration Status
6 EBP_A (psi) Exhaust Pressure Absolute
7 EBP_DSD Exhaust Pressure Desired
8 ECT (Temperature only) Engine coolant temperature
9 EGRT_A (Temperature only) EGR Temperature A
10 EGRT_B (Temperature only) EGR Temperature B
11 EGRVP (voltage) Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve Position
12 EGRVPDES EGR Valve Position Desired
13 EGT11 (Temperature only) Exhaust Gas Temperature 11
14 EGT12 (Temperature only) Exhaust Gas Temperature 12
15 EGT13 (Temperature only) Exhaust Gas Temperature 13
16 EOT (Temperature only) Engine Oil Temperature

17

Reko · #15 (**permalink**) 08-10-2009, 04:11 PM

Was just wondering what the outcome was for you caprang?
I am having the same issue with my 08' F-250 PSD. I had the DPF replaced about 6,000 miles ago and my tailpipes are black again. I have been in contact with the dealer and they are scratching their heads. The thing regens about every 3-400 miles, and lacks power sometimes, especially pulling a load. At first the dealer talked to someone at FORD and they told him yes, the DPF must be bad and that the tailpipes should not be black, now the dealer says the this must be normal because he is seeing other dark colored pipes. Any feed back or help would be greatly appreciated.