'97 AWD radiator and AC condensor

Torsen Rick · #1 (**permalink**) 06-23-2009, 03:35 PM

So, it's been a while since I've posted here. I find myself now repairing some collision damage on the front end of my '97 AWD (it tried to eat a Honda Fit). My radiator and AC condensor both have core damage. I could get away without replacing the AC condensor, but obviously not the rad, but I think I should just do it right and be done with it. After driving though the southwest last summer, I was contemplating replacing the 12 year old radiator with a new one anyway, but this isn't how I wanted to get into it.

Anyway, my question is this: are there any interchange issues that I should be aware of prior to buying parts? Has anyone ever used one of those relatively inexpensive radiators that populate eBay? Advance Auto Parts wants $200 for the rad, $160 for the condensor. I'd like to spend less than that if possible, but don't want a cheap POS rad to leave me stuck somewhere...

aerocolorado · #2 (**permalink**) 06-23-2009, 11:18 PM

Hey Torsen, long time no see around here.

I picked up a radiator from Radiator Barn for my 4.0. It looks comparable to the Modine replacement I put in several years back. Since my leak turned out to be a hose and not the side tank as feared, I have not had to replace the Modine yet. From looks alone, I would say it it appears to be a good unit.

A/C condensor: I purchased one from Arizona Air (ackits.com) years back and its been a quality unit with OEM bolt up ease and no problems.

93nighthawk · #3 (**permalink**) 06-24-2009, 11:50 PM

Torsen Rick!

Good to see you again! So where are the pics of the carnage?

Torsen Rick · #4 (**permalink**) 06-25-2009, 08:40 AM

No pics. I'm trying to erase all evidence that it happened, although I don't think the insurance company will fully allow that...

Thanks for the tip Aero. Are there any interchange differences to worry about, at least for the R134 vehicles? I'm thinking that I might buy a new radiator, but see if I can find a replacement condensor in a junkyard.

I also managed to bust the auxillary ATF cooler. This was butterfinger removal damage.

I broke the inlet tube off while trying to remove the line. It could probably be repaired, but I think I'm better off with a more effective aftermarket cooler.

The biggest bugger with this whole process has been repairing the front bumper. I'm not sure who's bright idea it was to spot weld it on instead of bolting it on like any other car I've worked on, but it makes replacing it a PITA. I happened to have a new replacement front half of the bumper, due to a mix-up that occurred a couple years ago when I was trying to buy a sport-type lower air dam. But to remove the old one, I had to drill out all the spot welds joining them. That could've been worse, but it certainly wasn't fun. Then I had reasonable straighten the back half, since I don't have a replacement for that. That required a lot of banging and winching. Now I'm ready to weld the front piece on, but I'm working in my driveway (van doesn't fit in my garage), so I have to wait on weather. Apparently using an electric welder in the rain is bad...

Once I get that on, I'll be ready to put the cores back in.

One more question: while I'm in this far, is there any real advantage to replacing the radiator fan with an electric one? Theoretically, there should be less drag and better fuel mileage, but is the difference enough to be worthwhile?

96_4wdr · #5 (**permalink**) 06-25-2009, 02:02 PM

hi rick,
glad to see you but not under these circumstances. drivers around here getting really crazy. i hate to drive during heavy traffic hours, too much speed and crowding.

try Rock Auto, our site sponsor, for pricing. they have some rad.s on wholesale closeout.

you're right, the 4L Aero Ext. does need the AUX tranny cooler in hot climates carrying vacation loads and extended day time driving with A/C on.

i would only add the aux electric fan if having problems cooling the van load of family on vacation. the price isn't covered by the small increase if any of mpg.

check the water pump shaft for damage from the impact with the radiator

flush out an old junke yard dog condenser with acetone and an air compressor several times both directions to clean out any collected debris including the FX-15 comp. "Black Death". some A/C shops say that Black Death plastic bonds to the condenser tubing interior and can not be cleaned out, but breaks off during heating cycle useage. it's a turn at the craps table.

Torsen Rick · #6 (**permalink**) 06-25-2009, 04:03 PM

They're OK to deal with? I've always questioned on-line parts places like that, as I've had misdealings with some of them (although I've never dlet with Rock Auto).

About the electric fan, I meant replacing the clutched fan with a suitably-sized electric one and removing the OEM fan entirely, not supplementing it.

96_4wdr · #7 (**permalink**) 06-25-2009, 05:12 PM

Rock Auto has done great with my orders over the years.

only problem with online is the part that is wrong or doesn't fit. never had that problem come up with RockA. always do my research first.

the local chain parts houses here are worthless. the old timers that knew more than any parts book have moved on. the behind the counter staff are kids on minimum wage. the manager has a business degree and knows nothing about the auto parts trade.

the local one shop parts stores are fast disappearing. my old favorite hot rod machine shop/parts house was sold several years ago. only one old timer that works part time. the rest are minimum wagers that can't speak English.
i refuse to go there anymore unless i'm desperate for a part.

it's all about commission now. sell the sucker the part and push him out the door.

aerocolorado · #8 (**permalink**) 06-25-2009, 05:52 PM

Ditto on Rock Auto. Great site and the amount pictures and information for each part is far better than any other online parts site. I even learned which side of a Focus wheel bearing should be installed next the ABS sensor......the second time around.

Torsen Rick · #9 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 01:13 PM

Alright, thanks for the input. I ordered a radiator and condensor from Rock Auto. I also decided that since I'm in that far, it would be prudent to replace the water pump. Not really necessary, but as the van has 140K+ on it and it's easy to get to at the moment, it seems like a good idea. Can't hurt anyway... So I ordered as well.

My friend welded the front bumper back up yesterday, so crash damage is officially all repaired. Now I've just got to put the new parts in. Hopefully I can have it all put back together by the 4th weekend.

xlt4wd90 · #10 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 05:08 PM

Rick,

Can you show pictures of the bumper repair? I'm curious as to where the best points are for cutting off the bumper.

Torsen Rick · #11 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 05:25 PM

I didn't cut off the bumper. I drilled the spotwelds that attached it. So the "cut" point is where the parts meet.

I had thought about cutting it apart and welding new parts to what remained of the cut-off piece, but that struck me as poorly executed and somewhat compromising to the integrety of the finished product. So I did it the long way - drilling the OEM spot welds, pulling the old panel off in its entirety, then welding the new one on in an OEM-like manner.

I drilled the mounting flange of the new bumper panel (which is spotwelded through) and had my welder buddy essentially hand spot weld it through the drilled holes to the panel it joins. It sounds more painstaking then it really was. The bumper panel steel isn't really all that hard, so it drilled readily.

To answer you question directly - if I took a picture now and showed it to you, it would look (mostly) just like the factory bumper. Well, just like it with a little extra welding, since he seem welded the ends rather than spot weld. When it was all done, it painted it so the exposed weld wouldn't rust. Now, it looks like the factory bumper. It probably would have been helpful if I took photos in-process, but as I mentioned before, I don't want a photo record...

xlt4wd90 · #12 (**permalink**) 06-26-2009, 09:01 PM

I see. thanks.

taurus8 · #13 (**permalink**) 06-28-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torsen Rick

I also managed to bust the auxillary ATF cooler. This was butterfinger removal damage.

I broke the inlet tube off while trying to remove the line. It could probably be repaired, but I think I'm better off with a more effective aftermarket cooler.

Sounds familiar...about 5 years ago they were ready to write off my Aero because my wife in a moment's inattention, rear ended someone. The rad was fine but the trans cooler & AC took the brunt of the grille being pushed back. (The AC doesn't work anyway).

The bodyshop just rehooked up everything and I thought all was fine, but then when I taxed the van to the max later that summer, towing a trailer, the transmission seals let go in the middle of nowhere.

Moral of the story, whatever you do, DO get another transmission cooler in there...I kept the probably non-functional original in there and added a cooler rated for 5000lbs (van is parked during the winter so no worries on it being too cool) and with regular trans and oil flushes, I've had few problems since.

Torsen Rick · #14 (**permalink**) 07-06-2009, 04:06 PM

Well, I received the parts I ordered from Rock Auto last week. The AC condenser is actually a Visteon part, so it's more or less an OEM replacement. The radiator I ordered, however, turned out to be out of stock. They notified me a couple days after shipping the condenser and water pump, so I then had to choose one of the other offerings they had, which of course cost more. About the water pump, the one that showed up was nothing like the OEM one. Different pulley, different shape, different size. They were pretty quick about refunding my money for it, though, and didn't ask to have the wrong one shipped back.

Because of my schedule, I went ahead and installed the new cores and skipped replacing the water pump. As there's no real reason to do it now (other then access was easy), I don't forsee a problem. I also replaced the OEM auxillary transmission cooler with a 4-pass aftermarket one. Now I just need to add the fluids back to it, put the headlights and grille back on, and I should be good to go.

Of potential interest: I was messing around with the air dam for the replacement bumper cover Friday evening while it was raining. Since I swapped my Sport-type air dam onto the new cover, I decided to try to see if I could mount the standard air dam to the bottom of the sport one. The intent isn't appearance (if anything, it probably looks a little goofy), but rather to block more air from going under the vehicle. I know it's a big, boxy van, but any little bit of aero improvement has got to help the fuel economy, right? I figure that it can't hurt and the parts are already on hand... Anyway, since the sport air dam flairs outward at the bottom, it's bottom edge is wider than the mounting surface of the standard air dam. I attached it directly at several places across the front and made small brackets to bridge the ends and bolt it on. The whole thing is set back in slightly from the bottom of the sport air dam as well, so between that and the matte-black color, it partly hides it from being obvious. Now I'm going to look into a partial grille block, since I have this newly restored cooling capability. I have a few spare grilles to play with. I think that if I block about 2/3s of it it'll still allow enough cooling air, but keep the air trapped under the hood to a minimum. Either way I don't expect a huge improvement (or any, really) in fuel mileage. I'm just doing it because I can and it amuses me...

xlt4wd90 · #15 (**permalink**) 07-06-2009, 05:10 PM

Rick, can you post pictures of the air dam? I'm having a hard time visualizing your description.

My experience with my van tells me that it needs all the airflow it can get, so I would not try to block any of it. In fact, I'm thinkking of cutting out parts of my grille just to open it up more. If you look at it, you can see that the actual open area is quite small due to the shape of the grille bars. It looks like very little of the radiator is actually exposed to the oncoming air. I figure I may be able to trim away some of the edges of the grille bars to increase the opening, and maybe airflow.

If you're worried about aerodynamics, you can try to open up the inner fenders to allow a better exit for the air entering the engine compartment. Another possibility would be to open up the rear edge of the hood, like Carrol Shelby did.