Brake update...

[X_Hemi_Guy]

I figured I would update my brake 'experiment'... We just returned from a 3000 mile towing trip and I now have just over 6000 miles on the Ex since I changed my brakes. I went with a somewhat unconventional combination on my brakes over what many on here have opted to do... My rotors had previously exhibited the dreaded steering wheel pulsation twice in the first 39,000 miles on my Ex and the dealer turned the rotors once but the pulsation returned shortly after that and ultimately while I was towing it got very bad...almost to the point of losing control!!! Thru all of my research on here it seemed that the 'pulsation' may be caused more by build up of 'shedding' brake pad material and embedding on the hot rotors making them 'rough'...than a traditional 'warped' rotor... So when I had to change my brakes I opted to go with Bendix rotors at $40 each and a set of Hawk LTS pads at ~$70...all told I have ~$150 in the front axle. I primarily use my Ex for 'snow' and 'tow' so I don't put many miles on her outside of the summer months... In the last two weeks though we put 3000 miles of towing which included some good 'hills' out in upstate NY, Vermont and New Hampshire... Thus far my brakes are just as smooth as when I changed them...there is no hint of any pulsation thus far...not saying that the pulsation won't return but so far so good... Figured I'd give a little update on how things are going so far... I know many have opted to go with cryo rotors on the front but I didn't want to shell out the $$$ at the time I was changing my brakes and figured I'd try and validate the theory of brake pad shedding/embedding on the rotors as to what could be causing the 'pulsation' over a conventional 'warped' rotor...thus far things are looking promising and I will keep everyone updated as to how it goes as I slowly put more miles on the Ex... Joe.

[Monsta]

Good report Joe. I've been saying for years that the "warped" rotor is a product of a dusty OEM pad and not a faulty rotor. Those Hawk pads have a BIG following.

[X_Hemi_Guy]

Ken,

Yours were many/most of the posts that I read when I was researching this topic...you made/make a convincing argument on what is the root cause of this issue so I figured for $80 (two Bendix rotors) I would give your theory a shot...and with my mostly 17,000#'s combined towing weight rolling down the road...so far so good...very predictable stopping performance...

Thanks for all your great efforts/posts/information on these boards!

Joe.

[crum71]

Good write up Joe, I guess you have just convinced me to put Hawk pads on mine when its time.

[71-4R3SONS]

Originally Posted by Monsta

Good report Joe. I've been saying for years that the "warped" rotor is a product of a dusty OEM pad and not a faulty rotor. Those Hawk pads have a BIG following.

I agree with Ken... thanks for the update. Nice to hear from you Joe! Like Ken says in his post, the warp is likely buildup.

NOW... what I'd like to see, is someone has had alot of problems with brake pulsing... Do this experiment:

When changing out your rotors or getting them turned, get some baseline data on the dimensions and "trueness" relating to the rotor... and when the problem returns (I did say someone who has alot of problems) do a recheck on all the calculations made. Compare.

Maybe this might close the endless chapters of "Warped Rotor Syndrome".

Anyone need a topic for a Masters Thesis?

[Stewart_H]

Joe, glad it's working for you.

I know the Hawk pads are a good product, and your "test" seems to be working well, but it makes me wonder why others who have opted for other non-cryo rotors have the problem return. IIRC, they're using a good quality pad too, if not the Hawk pads.

I'll have to do some searches to try and find those posts when I have a chance, to see what kind of pads those people are using.

Stewart

[Immortal_Ben]

Hey there yall, I have been away from the forum for a long while, and I came back to talk about just this topic.

I have about 7k miles on my rotors and Hawk LTS brake pads, mostly highway miles. I dont ride my brakes, and almost always use my transmission for initial slowing down, even in the city.

My pulsing has returned. Nope, I didnt go thru a car wash (my truck doesnt get washed) and I havent been thru any water puddles after a lot of time on the brake pedal. I have been very mindful to not overheat them.

Just thought I would drop this in the discussion, and am not trying to hijack the thread, lol

[bigdaddymedic2000]

the day i bought my EX, i was coming home. when i got to my driveway and applied the brakes, i thought the front end was coming apart. the next day i jacked the EX up, removed the front tire and looked at the rotors and pads. i could see that the pads were warn and the rotors were shot. my buddy at the napa store hooked me up with of their rotors ( not slotted / drilled ) and a set of ceramic pads. that was at 138,000 miles, today at 155,000 miles, there's no vibration, shimmy or problems stopping. and just after doing the front, i did the same setup on the rear. now when the pads wear out it may replace them with another type of pad material but so far i'm well pleased.

[Pinky Demon]

Does anyone else have to bury their foot into the brake pedal when trying to slow down from 40 mph?

[RoyC]

Originally Posted by Pinky Demon

Does anyone else have to bury their foot into the brake pedal when trying to slow down from 40 mph?

No, and I have 136,000 miles on my OEM rotors and pads.

Roy

[Pinky Demon]

Originally Posted by RoyC

No, and I have 136,000 miles on my OEM rotors and pads.

Roy

Sorry, I should have added while pulling a trailer of about roughly 3,500 lbs. liberal estimate.

[Stewart_H]

Originally Posted by Pinky Demon

Sorry, I should have added while pulling a trailer of about roughly 3,500 lbs. liberal estimate.

Nope. Not now, nor when I still had the OEM brakes.

Stewart

[gr8scott72]

Originally Posted by Pinky Demon

Sorry, I should have added while pulling a trailer of about roughly 3,500 lbs. liberal estimate.

No trailer brakes? Some states require brakes on any trailer over 2,000 lbs.

[X_Hemi_Guy]

If the 'theory' is right...a set of ceramic pads should NEVER exhibit this phenom since the ceramic pads are so hard...they would not shed and basically constantly 'clean'/'wipe' the rotors not causing any buildup...

The problem for me with cermaics is that I mostly tow with my Ex...ceramics by their nature require heat to be effective...heat requires usage so the first time I step on my brakes in my Ex after pulling many miles on the highway (i.e. COLD brake pads) to avoid something or some idiot trying to cut in front of me because OMG I'm pulling a trailer and may hold them up for a millisecond...I need my brakes to be there immediately and not after some 'warm up time'...so I steered away from the ceramics for my Ex...now if I never towed I would consider them as I like them on the mini van we have...brake dust is non-existant and braking performance is very good on that vehicle...

As far as why some continually get the 'pulse' and others don't...that sure is a mystery...I'm not 100% convinced yet that my 'pulse' won't return after more miles...afterall I only have ~6000 on this 'test' with about 4500 being towing miles...

Welcome back Ben!...I've been away from the forums a bit myself...time for me has been limited with much travel for work and when I am home on the weekends the honey-do list was longer than the weekend could hold...so something had to give and I had to prioritize my time...so I check in here and there mostly to see what is up and keep up on as much as I can...

Please do not take my post here as a 100% confirmation that this is an absolute fix since 6000 miles is really still only in the beginning of this 'test'...but so far I am still very pleased with the results and don't have any reason at this point to believe that my opinion will change...but only time and miles will tell for sure.

Joe.

[1 Excursion camper]

Originally Posted by Pinky Demon

Does anyone else have to bury their foot into the brake pedal when trying to slow down from 40 mph?

Yes! I have had this problem since I`ve bought my X with 17k on it. I did the resurface rotors and new pads deal. but it didn`t seem to help at all. next step is the hawk pads and drilled rotors.

Does anyone have the spongy pedal feel? I`ve noticed this in the last year. if I pump the pedal after the first application the X stops like it hit a wall! well not quite, but you get the idea. I`ve bled the brakes and inspected all the caliper slides and all are good. I believe I have read of this problem before.

Thanks.