save our trucks!!!

[classictrucknut]

i was checking the latest news on yahoo and i came across this article and i was outraged WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congress approved a "cash for clunkers" program Thursday to provide government incentives of $3,500 to $4,500 to motorists who trade in their gas guzzlers for more fuel efficient vehicles after Senate Democrats narrowly defeated a Republican effort to kill the plan. Auto state senators said the program would help hard-pressed car dealers and automakers by bringing buyers into showrooms, and they got help from President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, who made calls to wavering Democrats urging them to keep the plan alive. "This is an emergency for families and small businesses -- for an industry that has been the backbone of our economy for a generation," said Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich., who sponsored the proposal. Opponents said it would increase the federal debt without doing much to get expensive-to-operate vehicles off the roads. Senate supporters of the program overcame a procedural hurdle by the plan's leading opponent, Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., on a 60-36 vote, winning the minimum number of votes needed to keep the program in a $106 billion war-spending plan that the Senate passed later Thursday. The House approved the cash for clunkers bill last week on a vote of 298-119 and Senate Democrats attached it to the war-spending bill. The overall bill now goes to the White House for Obama's signature. Four Republicans -- Kit Bond of Missouri, Thad Cochran of Mississippi, Susan Collins of Maine and George Voinovich of Ohio -- voted with two independents and 54 Democrats in favor of the clunker measure, while Democrat Ben Nelson of Nebraska was opposed along with 35 Republicans. Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., changed her vote to support the vehicle incentive plan and spoke by phone with Obama during the vote. Cantwell spokeswoman Ciaran Clayton said Obama "acknowledged Senator Cantwell's concerns that the cash- for-clunkers program ... did not do enough to meet our nation's urgent need to reduce foreign oil dependence" and vowed to work with Cantwell and others to "maximize the number of efficient cars on America's roads." In addition to Cantwell, Obama and Biden reached out to Democrats Patrick Leahy of Vermont, Claire McCaskill of Missouri and Michael Bennet of Colorado, according to two people familiar with the outreach. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly. Obama has encouraged Congress to approve the consumer incentives for new car purchases as part of the government's efforts to restructure General Motors Corp. and Chrysler Group LLC. The bill provides $1 billion for the program from July through November. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., who supported a plan with more stringent requirements to receive the vouchers, said she received "absolute assurance" from Senate leaders that if the program was continued beyond November it would be modeled after the bill she pushed. Supporters said the program, which would be implemented by the Transportation Department, was expected to be implemented by early August. The auto industry and its union lobbied heavily for passage of the cash for clunkers plan as GM and Chrysler have received billions of dollars in government-led bankruptcies and the entire auto industry has dealt with plummeting car sales. In May, overall sales were 34 percent lower than a year ago. Under the proposal, car owners could get a voucher worth $3,500 if they traded in a vehicle getting 18 miles per gallon or less for one getting at least 22 mpg. The value of the voucher would grow to $4,500 if the mileage of the new car was 10 mpg higher than the old vehicle. The miles per gallon figures are listed on the car window's sticker. Owners of sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks or minivans that get 18 mpg or less could receive a voucher for $3,500 if their new truck or SUV got at least 2 mpg higher than their old vehicle. The voucher would increase to $4,500 if the mileage of the new truck or SUV was at least 5 mpg higher than the older vehicle. Dealers participating in the program would receive an electronic voucher from the government for the trade-in to apply to the purchase or lease of a qualifying vehicle. The bill directs dealers to ensure that the older vehicles are crushed or shredded to get the clunkers off the road. The program was intended to help replace older vehicles -- built in model year 1984 or later -- and would not make financial sense for consumers owning an older car with a trade-in value greater than $3,500 or $4,500. The U.S. industry is expected to generate about 9.5 million vehicles sales in 2009, compared with more than 13 million in 2008 and more than 16 million in 2007. Associated Press writer Matthew Daly contributed to this report. The bill is H.R. 2346. under this bill anyone can take any older vehicle and trade it in for a newer one. in theory if my truck got 11 mpg and i went to a participating dealership and found say a 98 f 150 that gets 21 mpg with a sticker price of 4600 then i could get it for 100 dollars and they would in turn shred my truck. i was confident obama was going to change the way our country is run but we had to know he was gonna something up he is taking a crap on our lifestyle and passion. anyone know how bad the gas milage is on the presidential limo? and how bout airforce one the plane and the chopper. he is one of the biggest individual gas guzzlers in the country. i swear if this takes hold i will personally drive over every smart car and toyota pos i see from now on anyone else with me or am i just a " smog makin earth hating hillbilly jacka$$" as i am regularly called by the guys around here that can park there car in a refridgerator box. you can keep those tiny plastic pieces of crap and we'll see what happens when your too busy playing with your blackberry to notice the light change and you t-bone me. i will laugh while i bang out the dent with a hammer and you will cry the wrecker driver sweeps up the plastic pieces. and i am not huge on doomsday theorys but if the "emp attack" ever happens good luck getting to somewhere with more civilization i will be the guy cruisin around like nothing happened meeting up with my "hillbilly" friends to come up with a plan to save your sorry. if you want to save the planet stop expanding the cities and plant a damn tree but out here in the country things are just fine i planted enoug corn this year workin on a farm to counteract all the smog in my town and we all drive trucks. everyone feel free to rant with me

[kermmydog]

I think a lot of these things our fearless leaders are trying to do will fail. I'm not getting rid of my old trucks. How are unemployed people going to buy a NEW car. That is how we got here. People buying on credit things they can't afford. People with jobs are being squeezed by tight money, lower wages, rising costs of everything. The wealthy won't buy enough new cars to keep this thing going. Do you think they are going to trade off their Cads, Lexus's, Hi Pro cars for some little under performing car that gets 40 MPG but a 10 MPH head on will kill everybody in the gas sipper.
Relax, save your money buy silver & gold stock some food watch the world turn.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Kerrmy,

You forgot water & Ammo.

[tseekins]

My old '88 F-150 is in fantastic condition from stem to stern. However, I'm replacing her in the next 12-14 months or so with a brand spanking new F-150 / 250.

I would not want to see my truck destroyed as she still has many good years left in her and she could be a source of repair parts for many more years after that.

With all that said, I couldn't get $3500 let alone $4500 for her no matter how much fast talkin' I did. It makes perfectly good sense for me to take the trade-in value plus the voucher and get what I want.

Tim

[raoul]

So many wrong assumptions made here about this Bill.

Here are a few:
New F-150s don't qualify, the best 'combined' mpg they get is 17.5.
(Combined = City + Highway / 2)
A new truck must get 18mpg.
A new car must get 22mpg.

You can't trade for a newer truck, it must be new.

The 'clunker' must be rated by the EPA at 18mpg or less.
To find your 'clunker' mpg check here: Find a Car

The clunker must be road worthy, insured and owned for last full year before deal.

You don't get the Voucher plus trade value, you just get the voucher.
Which means, if you own a vehicle that is rated less 18mpg AND is worth less than $4500 AND you are in the market for a new vehicle that has better mpg, this could be something to look into.

Also, the clunker might not get crushed.
Only the Engine and Transmission are REQUIRED to be crushed.
The dealer can do whatever with other parts of the vehicle.

[fireball 440]

Why do they call it 'clunker'? Shouldn't it be called 'gashog'? I could have a clunker that gets 30 mpg.

[aerocolorado]

Don't get too excited. At some point in deliberations, there was to be a 1 million vehicle limit on this bill. How trading 1 million clunkers will generate 9.5 million new sales must be more government accounting smoke and mirrors.

What is more worrisome is how a program like this will morph into something more hedious in the future. Instead of a voluntary program it may become mandatory.

[patrick77598]

Originally Posted by raoul

So many wrong assumptions made here about this Bill.

Here are a few:
New F-150s don't qualify, the best 'combined' mpg they get is 17.5.
(Combined = City + Highway / 2)
A new truck must get 18mpg.
A new car must get 22mpg.

You can't trade for a newer truck, it must be new.

The 'clunker' must be rated by the EPA at 18mpg or less.
To find your 'clunker' mpg check here: Find a Car

My truck is not on that list, i guess that means its milage is so good it doesent apply for this program

[cjben]

damn this would be a sweet way for me to get rid of my POS daily driver 99 chevy cavalier and get a new focus!! they are selling stripped models around here for $11,000 so for around $7,000 I could be in a new car and it would be a FORD.!! win win for me.

[galaxie641]

All it will do is a put a price floor on the so called "clunker", so now people who could only afford a $1K car are SOL because they are going to be worth 2 to 3 times that since you can get a minimum $3500 for them with a voucher.

[Virto]

Hmm, it might end up being worth it really.

I'm sorry, as much as I love my truck, the bottom line is that it's 16+ years old, it's starting to rust through and chances are it's going to need considerable mechanical work down the road. Hell, I don't even have a/c because I don't want to spend enough money to update it.

If it really works as intended, this could be a great deal, and no...jobless folks aren't going to go buy a new car, but that's not the point. It's supposed to get rid of older, less efficient and smog-producing autos. Nowhere does it say anything about outlawing older cars or guzzlers, so get over that crap, seriously.

With the ownership restrictions, it's not like people can go and buy all the 500 dollar trucks on craigslist and screw everyone over.

So many of these trucks were made that they aren't going anywhere, even if they shred half a million of them. If you want to keep yours, that's fine, go for it...but if this plan can help you, and rest assured it can help quite a few people out there, then let them enjoy the freedom to do as they please.

[Virto]

Originally Posted by galaxie641

All it will do is a put a price floor on the so called "clunker", so now people who could only afford a $1K car are SOL because they are going to be worth 2 to 3 times that since you can get a minimum $3500 for them with a voucher.

I highly doubt it, because of the 1-year ownership requirement. When people need to sell a car or truck, they'll sell it for whatever they can get.

If you find someone that doesn't really need to sell, then they have time to wait, and can afford to sit on it.

Since you only get a voucher if you go buy a shiny brand new car, it won't have the effect on the used market that you're thinking.

[85e150six4mtod]

Since no one gives a tinker's damn that my '85 only has 83K on it, smogs OEM clean, has recent new parts, no rust, slide-in rear seats, a good stereo, cool Ankra tie downs, beefy 1/2" ply interior, thrifty-but-tough 300 I6, don't-make-'em-anymore 4 on the floor, and I'd be lucky to get $800 even though the last guys interested didn't even show up to see it after they called to make an appointment, I think I will look into getting some of my money back this way, the same as the converter box coupons I keep ordering with different relatives addresses......

Otherwise, it's a bad idea.

[Ford_Six]

I think in the short term this program actually causes more fuel to be used. If you believe the estimates, it takes the equivalent of 45-55 barrels of oil to build a new car. That's nearly two years of fuel consumption for the average vehicle.
So, low dollar value, economic slump, and we're going to jack up the consumption of oil, drive the price up, and set ourselves up for a real fall.

[snipAR-15]

My truck's paid for. For that reason alone, Im not getting rid of it until it falls apart. This whole plan seems like a waste of money all around.