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  #1  
Old 06-14-2009, 04:43 PM
Pompanosix Pompanosix is offline
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Possible black death?.......

Yesterday, the compressor started making a grinding noise while I was idling, so I immediately stopped the ac after about 10 sec. As soon as I have the refrigerant reclaimed, I'll open it up and start my investigation, but I do have a few questions. I have been shopping around and I am trying to make a decision on a CompressorWorks FS10. Has anyone used this brand before and what do you think?

Regardless of whether or not it is black death, I'm prepared, but not happy (lol), to spend the money on a new condenser, accumulator, and orifice tube. I'm in one of those do-it-right-this-time-and-have-less-headaches-later moments.

Looking a little further down the road, I've been doing a lot of reading on the net about tackling this task, and read something about a Ford TSB that requires 4oz. ADDITIONAL refrigerant oil on a 94 halfton. Have any of you guys heard of such?
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Old 06-15-2009, 05:46 PM
lsrx101 lsrx101 is offline
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Replacing the condenser is a very good idea as they can trap debris that can haunt you later.
Look at the orifice tube first. If you find black goo on it, just keep going and replace the lines too. That would be a real Black Death failure.
If you only see metal particles, you can flush and reuse the lines. Any lines with mufflers in them need to be replaced, they can't be reliably flushed and can trap debris.
Solvent flush the evaporator and blow it dry with lots of compressed air.

I haven't heard of the TSB calling for more refrigerant. Evacuate and charge the system with the amount on the tag. Then check the temp of the evaporator inlet and outlet tubes where they enter the case after 5 minutes, 1500 RPM, Max AC High Blower and doors open.
They should be equal temp or the suction tube (larger tube) should be slightly colder than the inlet. If not, add 1-2 ounces of refrigerant as needed, up to the 4 ounces stated. A contact type thermometer is very helpful for this
Don't let the High side pressure exceed about 275psi. If it does, STOP.
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:52 PM
Pompanosix Pompanosix is offline
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Ok, so first step is to reclaim refrigerant and check orifice tube. I will start tomorrow and post new findings.

Yea, the additional OIL was something I haven't heard of either, but i'm no ac guy so that doesn't mean much. Hopefully, someone else can chime in.
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Old 06-15-2009, 11:48 PM
lsrx101 lsrx101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompanosix View Post
Ok, so first step is to reclaim refrigerant and check orifice tube. I will start tomorrow and post new findings.

Yea, the additional OIL was something I haven't heard of either, but i'm no ac guy so that doesn't mean much. Hopefully, someone else can chime in.

Aahh, I missed the OIL part. Never heard of 4 extra ounces of that either.
Here's the capacity chart published by NAPA:
http://www.napabeltshose.com/downloa...s&view=napa_hc

Compare it to the tag on your system.
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Old 06-17-2009, 11:06 PM
Pompanosix Pompanosix is offline
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Napa agrees with the tag on the truck. 7oz. of oil. Here's a link that was posted by a "subford" in another forum:

Ford F150 A/C Compressor in 1989

I'm assuming it's the same guy whose posts i've read in the 87-96 board. Don't quite know how to proceed as far as the oil.

BTW, it wasn't even close to black death as I assumed, thank God! I checked the orifice tube and it was pretty clean. No metal particles. No black gunk. No black anything. A little dirty (meaning not white like new) but nothing impeding flow. I have put on a new compressor, condenser, and accumulator, evap, and o-tube. I flushed the condenser-evap line real good with rubbing alcohol.

I don't know if I should go ahead and flush the accum-comp line. I would think it's probably ok.
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Old 06-18-2009, 11:15 AM
lsrx101 lsrx101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompanosix View Post
Napa agrees with the tag on the truck. 7oz. of oil. Here's a link that was posted by a "subford" in another forum:

Ford F150 A/C Compressor in 1989

I'm assuming it's the same guy whose posts i've read in the 87-96 board. Don't quite know how to proceed as far as the oil.

BTW, it wasn't even close to black death as I assumed, thank God! I checked the orifice tube and it was pretty clean. No metal particles. No black gunk. No black anything. A little dirty (meaning not white like new) but nothing impeding flow. I have put on a new compressor, condenser, and accumulator, evap, and o-tube. I flushed the condenser-evap line real good with rubbing alcohol.

I don't know if I should go ahead and flush the accum-comp line. I would think it's probably ok.
Go ahead and put 10 oz of oil in the system. It won't harm anything. I'm glad you didn't have a Black Death failure.

You really shouldn't have used rubbing alcohol, it's about 70% WATER! It's very likely that you didn't get it all out of the evaporator. It's also very likely that your new accumulator is saturated now too, especially if you didn't evacuate right away when you put it on. You're not supposed to install the accumulator until right before you pull a vacuum on the system, They soak up moisture and humidity like a sponge. Oops!

If it were my truck, I would replace the accumulator again and reflush with a different solvent like isopropyl or denatured alcohol or lacquer thinner.
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:55 PM
Pompanosix Pompanosix is offline
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Sorry I wasn't clear. Because I had all new parts, I cleaned the cond-evap line with alcohol. It was off when I cleaned it. "Flushing" may have led you to think I was flushing the system.

Anyways, I have never charged a system before, so I only changed all the parts and had my ac guy charge it for me. IT WORKS!!!

Blower setting 2: 42 degs at vents
Blower setting 3: 48 degs at vents
Blower setting High: 51 degs at vents...All this on a 90deg FL day.

The other day when it was raining, on all the blower settings, it stayed down at 40deg (vents). Thanks for all your help!

............and life is good.
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Old 06-28-2009, 01:13 AM
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Thank you for coming back with the results of your project. As an industrial HVAC mechanic I have the recovery machine, manifold gauges, and vacuum pump needed to evacuate and charge AC systems for friends which keeps me in beer for most of the summer.
thanks
rikard
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  #9  
Old 06-28-2009, 10:19 AM
lsrx101 lsrx101 is offline
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"Sorry I wasn't clear. Because I had all new parts, I cleaned the cond-evap line with alcohol. It was off when I cleaned it. "Flushing" may have led you to think I was flushing the system."

Yes, that's exactly what happened. I didn't read close enough. Sorry.


Anyways, I have never charged a system before, so I only changed all the parts and had my ac guy charge it for me. IT WORKS!!!

Excellent! Good Job!

"Blower setting 2: 42 degs at vents
Blower setting 3: 48 degs at vents
Blower setting High: 51 degs at vents...All this on a 90deg FL day.
The other day when it was raining, on all the blower settings, it stayed down at 40deg (vents). Thanks for all your help!
"

That's not bad. Dropping the blower setting 1 notch slows down the air flow over the evaporator, often allowing it to absorb more heat.
It's not unusual for the vent temp to drop slightly when it rains, because it helps cool the condenser. With that large of a drop though, I wonder if your fan clutch isn't weak. If you're curious, try and improve the airflow over the condenser. (start with a new HD fan clutch) You may be able to get even lower vent temps consistently.

"............and life is good."
Yes it is. Thanks for letting us know your results.
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Old 06-28-2009, 11:46 PM
Pompanosix Pompanosix is offline
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You may have addressed my next concern. At 180k, the truck still has the original fan clutch. I was thinking of getting a new clutch at the dealer this week and changing it out. I've read about guys employing different tricks to check a fan clutch so I will do that first but with that many miles, I think we can all assume the fan clutch isn't as efficient as it was in 1994.

What I neglected to mention earlier is that those vent temp numbers are all with the truck moving (50mph+). At idle, the numbers are not as good. I will check the vent temps tomorrow but I think at idle or bumper-to-bumper traffic, the vent temps rise up to 60degs and higher. Not good!

Putting in a pusher fan has also crossed my mind but I have to search this topic some more.

I shall have the vent temps at idle on the next post.
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Old 06-29-2009, 12:17 AM
lsrx101 lsrx101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompanosix View Post
You may have addressed my next concern. At 180k, the truck still has the original fan clutch. I was thinking of getting a new clutch at the dealer this week and changing it out. I've read about guys employing different tricks to check a fan clutch so I will do that first but with that many miles, I think we can all assume the fan clutch isn't as efficient as it was in 1994.

What I neglected to mention earlier is that those vent temp numbers are all with the truck moving (50mph+). At idle, the numbers are not as good. I will check the vent temps tomorrow but I think at idle or bumper-to-bumper traffic, the vent temps rise up to 60degs and higher. Not good!

Putting in a pusher fan has also crossed my mind but I have to search this topic some more.

I shall have the vent temps at idle on the next post.
Don't bother trying to "test" the fan clutch. There's no good way to check it at idle speeds without a photo tach. Trust me, at 15 years it is weak at lower speeds.
A pusher fan can help quite a bit at idle/low speeds even with a new clutch. Try the clutch first, though.
Once you get the new clutch installed, have your machanic tweak the charge. A weak fan clutch (poor condenser airflow) can raise the system pressures and mask an undercharge condition. If the clutch was weak and he charged it by the pressures, it will be under charged.
If he used the "80% rule" by weight, it can still be undercharged for your particular system. That recommendition is a starting point, not a hard and fast spec.
Good Luck
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Old 06-29-2009, 04:46 PM
Pompanosix Pompanosix is offline
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New fan clutch it is! Give me a few days and I'll repost.......I'm so slammed with work this summer that I may not get to it 'till this weekend. Not that i'm complaining.....
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Old 06-29-2009, 07:17 PM
lsrx101 lsrx101 is offline
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.....I'm so slammed with work this summer that I may not get to it 'till this weekend. Not that i'm complaining.....
I hear ya. I've been so swamped with electrical and AC work that I don't have time to fix my own car. I'm not complaining one bit...I've been laid off from my IT job since January.
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Old 06-29-2009, 07:51 PM
Pompanosix Pompanosix is offline
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Do any of you guys thing a good size electric fan in place of a new fan clutch will be beneficial. Maybe one that can utilize the same fan shroud? Do you think this will be more efficient while idling, or in bumper-to-bumper? I could care less about any added power.....I NEED AIRFLOW!

Sorry to hear about your IT job. My work was real slow FEB MAR, and APR that I was doing painting for a while...and I ain't no painter! Good thing summer is here, kids are out, and we finally got some big demolition jobs here in Palm Beach County to get us through the summer. Thank God for these old classrooms!
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:17 PM
lsrx101 lsrx101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pompanosix View Post
Do any of you guys thing a good size electric fan in place of a new fan clutch will be beneficial. Maybe one that can utilize the same fan shroud? Do you think this will be more efficient while idling, or in bumper-to-bumper? I could care less about any added power.....I NEED AIRFLOW!

Sorry to hear about your IT job. My work was real slow FEB MAR, and APR that I was doing painting for a while...and I ain't no painter! Good thing summer is here, kids are out, and we finally got some big demolition jobs here in Palm Beach County to get us through the summer. Thank God for these old classrooms!
My buddy retrofitted a Crown Vic fan and shroud to his 94 Bronco. It seems to do the job just fine, especially at idle. Find one from a later CV/GM/TC that doesn't have a mechanical fan. Fab a couple of flat sheet metal brackets and trim the new shroud a bit. He said it wasn't hard at all. You might be able to mount the fan into the existing shroud, the setup is hard to describe. Scope one out in the junk yard.

A Lincoln Mark VIII fan is even better if you can find one. They move massive amounts of air. I don't know about fitment, though. The hot rodders love them so they disappear quick from the yards.

The current draw is pretty hefty when they power on, but there are controller kits that will ramp up the speed to reduce the hit.
You'll have to go through a parts catalog and find a suitable temp switch, I'll see if my buddy has the part number for the one he used. The probes that go into a rad hose connection tend to leak. He drilled and tapped a hole in an existing boss cast into the thermostat housing on his 5.0 for a switch.
You can also wire in a relay to turn the fan on when the AC is on. This function may be available on the aftermarket controller if you go that route.
I seem to recall FTE member Franklin posting a nice electrical diagram for electric cooling fans some time back. It's not complicated.
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Old 06-29-2009, 08:17 PM
 
 
 
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