Odd Starter issue

dirtybroncoii · #1 (**permalink**) 06-08-2009, 03:48 PM

I have read some of the threads on here trying to figure out what is exactly wrong with my truck.

Here is the issue.

I install the starter and ill only get maybe 5 starts off of it before it starts to grind on the flywheel. When I loosen the starter up and re torque it I can get 5 starts off it again.

Here is what I have done so far.

Changed starters (3x), Changed the Flywheel (3x), Changed Bell Housing (2x). every time I changed one major component I tried the other minor ones. I have tried all 18 of the possible combinations of all the parts I own and it does the same thing every time. Basically I have replaced everything between the engine and the transmission and I cant seem to figure out what is wrong.

The only thing i can think of is the transmission its self needs to be replaced but I didn't have any troubles with this transmission in my other Bronco II. As for the engine it is a fresh rebuild begging for some miles. Im at the end of my knowledge base if anyone could help it would be much appreciated.

kernel-panic · #2 (**permalink**) 06-09-2009, 01:43 PM

Is the spacer plate installed between engine and transmission? Only other thing I can think of is you have the wrong starter(s) - the auto and manual transmission starters are different, if memory serves. Only other thing I can think of is to shim the starter a little at a time until you find the sweet spot and get rid of the issue(s).

dirtybroncoii · #3 (**permalink**) 06-09-2009, 05:39 PM

I have used starters off of both the starter off the auto that came out of the vehicle and the 2 other manual starters that i have. I have tried shimming the starter out and all it does is grind. . . it seems like the starter gear is too short. The plate is in between the engine and the transmission.

dirtybroncoii · #4 (**permalink**) 06-20-2009, 10:53 AM

A few friends of mine suggested it could be electrical. So I have replaced the Positive from the Battery, Starter Solenoid, and Cable going to the starter. That was all in the last few days. Nothing solved the problem.

Today I will put in a ground cable directly to the starter on the top bolt and if that dosent work i will install a 302 starter and see if it solves anything.

I have looked at the 302 starter and it has the same amount of teeth and the mounting bolts are in the same places. The only difference is that the starter is going to be mounted "upside down" compared to the 2.9 starter.

I will update when i get some results.

dirtybroncoii · #5 (**permalink**) 06-20-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernel-panic

Only other thing I can think of is you have the wrong starter(s) - the auto and manual transmission starters are different, if memory serves.

I checked a few auto parts stores and have found only one starter that can be purchased and that one goes on both Auto and Standards

tommyleea · #6 (**permalink**) 06-20-2009, 11:06 AM

History? Was the starter the original problem, and what was the original starter symtoms? Were the flywheel and other parts replaced because of the starter problem, or prior to? Just trying to narrow down the possiblities.

TommyJ

Eddiec1564 · #7 (**permalink**) 06-20-2009, 02:49 PM

How bad are the teeth of the starter and ring gear? You might not be engaging the bendex at all. I never heard of shimming Ford starters before unless you had a bent bellhousing or bent bolts holding starter in place.

dirtybroncoii · #8 (**permalink**) 06-20-2009, 04:42 PM

tommyleea: - History: The vehicle started out running and driving great, until the day the front seal went out in the automatic in it. I took the original engine and transmission out and replaced with my Fresh rebuilt 2.9 and the manual that was with it in my other Bronco II. That engine NEVER had a starting issue it ran just great too.

Eddiec1564: - All 3 flywheels and all 3 Starters have the same amount of teeth on them, also if I try to shim the starter it DOES NOT engage at all. I have had both of the standard transmissions and flywheels behind the same engine that is currently in my truck and have had NO problems with either paring.

I just need to be driving it.

dirtybroncoii · #9 (**permalink**) 06-20-2009, 07:11 PM

i took the aluminum plate out from between the engine and transmission and i got a few more starts out of it before it started to grind. . . but i think all the grinding that has gone on with trying to figure out this problem has wore the flywheel down so i have to replace it before i can go further.

Eddiec1564 · #10 (**permalink**) 06-20-2009, 10:11 PM

That is what my question was about, the teeth condition of starter and flywheel. On my B2 with the A4ld, I had a grinder for a starter, it ate up three places along the flexplate(compression stroke of engine where torque of starting is highest). After replacing flexplate/starter I had no problems till that seal blew out..... I would put a manual in but the wife can't drive stick.

rebocardo · #11 (**permalink**) 06-21-2009, 01:26 AM

> with my Fresh rebuilt 2.9 and the manual that was with it in my other Bronco II.
> That engine NEVER had a starting issue it ran just great too.

Check your pilot bearing when you have it apart. Look inside and see if anything sharp is sticking out (don't cut yourself), then stick your finger inside and give it a whirl and see if it moves freely.

If it has gone bad (welded up) not only will it require more torque to turn it over, but, it will eventually cause a front seal leak from it being cranked to the side and from vibration.

If it was bad and you did not check it, it is possible a piece dropped in front of the input shaft so the transmission is not seated all the way into the crankshaft. So, the starter is misaligned.

Had something like this happen in a customer's Jeep and AX-15 manual transmission and had to cut the bearing out with an air chisel.

So, if I had changed everything but the pilot bushing, I would pull the bushing, clean the hole out well, and install another well greased one.

dirtybroncoii · #12 (**permalink**) 06-21-2009, 03:53 PM

rebocardo: "it will eventually cause a front seal leak from it being cranked to the side and from vibration." - The front seal that went out on the previous transmission and it was an Automatic. I have never had a Standard shift leak fluid and my current transmission is not leaking.

dirtybroncoii · #13 (**permalink**) 07-08-2009, 04:32 PM

rebocardo - How can a misaligned pilot bearing cause the starter to misalign. If the transmission is bolted tightly to the engine the starter is going to be in the correct spot.

tommyleea · #14 (**permalink**) 07-10-2009, 08:34 AM

You stated that if you loosen the starter up, and retighten it, then it will start fine again. Is the starter moving from its original position? Are the bolts actually tightening up against the starter? Maybe you need some new bolts. Cheers

TommyJ

dirtybroncoii · #15 (**permalink**) 07-10-2009, 08:50 AM

Ok I actually fixed it. all the flywheels I own where worn to the point where the starters just stopped engaging. I had a new ring gear installed in one of my flywheels and it works like a charm. Thanks for all your input.