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  #136  
Old 07-27-2011, 09:11 PM
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I explained it to them twice and they wouldn't hardly talk to me about it. They wanted to talk to the mechanic who did the work (installed the gear box). I was furious but I did what they asked and the mechanic told them the same thing that I told them. Then they told me they would replace it but if I didn't replace the pump as well, they would not send me a third pump no matter what. I just replaced the pump and flushed the system last week thinking that it probably wouldn't be too long before it goes out anyway, and it still has the same issues, only not quite as bad. I haven't talked to them since I put the pump in because I thought I might see if anyone here could give me some advice. At this point, I wish I had not used them anyway and I could just get my money returned so I could go with Red Head but since thats not an option at this point, I guess I'll role my sleeves up and fight. The company is Power Steering Pros in San Diego CA. If you ever hear of anyone thinking of using them, do them a favor unless you don't like them and tell them to steer clear. (Ha!, steer clear)

Anyway, I thought I would see if anyone here could think of anything else for me to try or if there was any possibility the problem being somewhere else beside the box. I just don't see how it could be, but I'm not a professional mechanic either. I appreciate everyones input. I just wish I would have joined in here before all this started. I'll never make another repair without checking here. You guys are great!

Meanwhile, I'll call tomorrow (thur) and see what happens.

Thanks again!!

Tim
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  #137  
Old 07-27-2011, 09:28 PM
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Thats a good idea! The first time they told me that, I thought he was kidding. How could they not honor it? The second time I called a different guy told me that he would send me a new one but they wouldn't honor a third one if I didn't replace the pump. I went ahead and replaced it because I thought maybe it was weak or about to go out anyway. They have just hassled me every time I deal with them. I'll deal with them tomorrow and see what happens. Thanks for the advice!

Tim
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  #138  
Old 07-27-2011, 09:34 PM
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Thats a good idea! The first time they told me that, I thought he was kidding. How could they not honor it? The second time I called a different guy told me that he would send me a new one but they wouldn't honor a third one if I didn't replace the pump. I went ahead and replaced it because I thought maybe it was weak or about to go out anyway. They have just hassled me every time I deal with them. I'll deal with them tomorrow and see what happens. Thanks for the advice!

Tim

OOPS I accidentally posted this twice and couldn't figure out how to delete it. All it would let me do is add to it.

Last edited by timmytoes; 07-27-2011 at 09:41 PM. Reason: Accidentally posted it twice
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  #139  
Old 07-28-2011, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickbrad View Post
I have about 5 degrees or so of play (or backlash is the correct term) between the time I engage the wheel from steering the tires from one direction to the other. I tightened the adjustment screw on top of the steering box and it definitly made the steering tighter - that is, it made it harder to turn through the backlash, but the backlash is still there.

My dad and I both looked under the truck last weekend while the other cranked the wheel back and forth through this 5 degree range - we both agreed the input shaft was moving before the output responded.

So I guess I am just looking for confirmation from someone that the adjustment screw is to adjust drag or friction, not to reduce backlash.
I believe you are right. However, I am no expert on it. I've just had to deal with some gearbox issues. Did the pitman arm move at all before the wheels start turning, when you and your Dad were checking it out? Or, is all that play in the box?

Tim
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  #140  
Old 07-28-2011, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmytoes View Post
I believe you are right. However, I am no expert on it. I've just had to deal with some gearbox issues. Did the pitman arm move at all before the wheels start turning, when you and your Dad were checking it out? Or, is all that play in the box?

Tim
Tim, it sure seemed to be all in the box. At least that's what we both thought. I'm going to start there. I am also going from 35" tires to 285/75-16s which are just under 33". I'm going to put Michelle M/S 2s so the [possible] extra friction on the ground may take away the effect of downsizing.

I bought the truck for towing a 5th wheel with my family and I think I want the M/S tires because they are hopefully going to ride a little nicer and quieter than the 35" BFG Radial T/A KOs on it now.
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  #141  
Old 07-28-2011, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickbrad View Post
I have about 5 degrees or so of play (or backlash is the correct term) between the time I engage the wheel from steering the tires from one direction to the other. I tightened the adjustment screw on top of the steering box and it definitly made the steering tighter - that is, it made it harder to turn through the backlash, but the backlash is still there.

My dad and I both looked under the truck last weekend while the other cranked the wheel back and forth through this 5 degree range - we both agreed the input shaft was moving before the output responded.

So I guess I am just looking for confirmation from someone that the adjustment screw is to adjust drag or friction, not to reduce backlash.
The adjustment on the steering box is for mesh load but it should help to remove some of the slop. Keep in mind though that more than likely the box is worn on-center. If you make adjustments to the mesh load to remove the slop you will accelerate the wear and eventually you'll be back in the same boat but now with a more heavily worn out steering box.

If you truly want to adjust mesh load you have to have to remove the steering box from the truck and break out the in-lb torque wrench. Yes, mesh load is set in inch-pounds somewhere under 10! I can't remember the value exactly but it was single digit. So doing it by hand on the truck means almost certain over tightening and faster wear. I read an article on the proper way to adjusted mesh load and all the pitfalls of "hand" adjustment but I cannot seem to find the link. The Ford workshop manuals say it can be done with the steering gear on the truck and the drag link disconnected by measuring the torque value on the steering wheel. However if I recall correctly the article I read did not recommend this because of all the additional drag that can be introduced from the steering shaft.

Anyway doing an adjust of the mesh load is a band-aid but since your steering box is at this point you don't have much to lose as long as you don't go crazy and bust the teeth off the worm gear from over tightening. You might be able to get useful additional life from it but keep in mind you will need to rebuild it or replace it eventually.
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  #142  
Old 07-28-2011, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster-4 View Post
The adjustment on the steering box is for mesh load but it should help to remove some of the slop. Keep in mind though that more than likely the box is worn on-center. If you make adjustments to the mesh load to remove the slop you will accelerate the wear and eventually you'll be back in the same boat but now with a more heavily worn out steering box.

If you truly want to adjust mesh load you have to have to remove the steering box from the truck and break out the in-lb torque wrench. Yes, mesh load is set in inch-pounds somewhere under 10! I can't remember the value exactly but it was single digit. So doing it by hand on the truck means almost certain over tightening and faster wear. I read an article on the proper way to adjusted mesh load and all the pitfalls of "hand" adjustment but I cannot seem to find the link. The Ford workshop manuals say it can be done with the steering gear on the truck and the drag link disconnected by measuring the torque value on the steering wheel. However if I recall correctly the article I read did not recommend this because of all the additional drag that can be introduced from the steering shaft.

Anyway doing an adjust of the mesh load is a band-aid but since your steering box is at this point you don't have much to lose as long as you don't go crazy and bust the teeth off the worm gear from over tightening. You might be able to get useful additional life from it but keep in mind you will need to rebuild it or replace it eventually.
Mike,

I think you are correct about the gearing being more worn on center. This makes perfect sense because most of the high load (completely stationary or at low ground speed) steering is likely done around the center (parking, etc.), and certainly almost all of the high ground speed steering would be done around the center (going straight down the highway.)

I have already contacted Harvey Foster about a Red-Head steering box after reading and studying your write-up/instructions on how to R&R one. $326 + shipping both ways. A bit more pricey than most I have seen, but it sounds like they are worth the extra cost.

I went to Harbor Freight and saw a front end puller set for $70. It was a bit more than I wanted to spend especially since I really only need the Pitman arm puller for now, not the whole set. I'm sure I could spend $500 on a Snap-On set over the Chinese one at HF however.

Do you still have the same box you installed back in 2009? Is it holding up well? I also saw somewhere in the middle of the thread you installed a filter on the return. I will likely do this at the same time I R&R the box.

Rick
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  #143  
Old 07-28-2011, 09:29 AM
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Autozone, Orielly's and Advance Auto Parts rent the front end tools. You buy the tool, use it and return it for full refund. That way if you never bring it back, they get their money. Each has a different policy on how long you can keep the tool but this is a great way to get a specialty tool when you need it without spending any money.
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  #144  
Old 07-28-2011, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonodsky View Post
Autozone, Orielly's and Advance Auto Parts rent the front end tools. You buy the tool, use it and return it for full refund. That way if you never bring it back, they get their money. Each has a different policy on how long you can keep the tool but this is a great way to get a specialty tool when you need it without spending any money.
That is a good reminder and friendly advice. I remember borrowing a puller once when I had to pull a harmonic balancer to get to a timing chain on a 318 in a Dodge Dart I had... Uh oh, showing my age now! Parts houses have been doing that forever I guess. Must make it easier to sell parts or something, huh?

I can also bring the steering box to work and use a hydraulic press which sounds like the way to go anyway. We have a large machine shop which is not automotive, but if I am not too brash about it I can likely push the box out of the Pitman arm there. But I have to fixture up something to support the Pitman arm adequately and that is where it might go overboard for what I should be doing at work. I'll try a puller first.
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  #145  
Old 07-28-2011, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickbrad View Post
Mike,

I think you are correct about the gearing being more worn on center. This makes perfect sense because most of the high load (completely stationary or at low ground speed) steering is likely done around the center (parking, etc.), and certainly almost all of the high ground speed steering would be done around the center (going straight down the highway.)

I have already contacted Harvey Foster about a Red-Head steering box after reading and studying your write-up/instructions on how to R&R one. $326 + shipping both ways. A bit more pricey than most I have seen, but it sounds like they are worth the extra cost.

I went to Harbor Freight and saw a front end puller set for $70. It was a bit more than I wanted to spend especially since I really only need the Pitman arm puller for now, not the whole set. I'm sure I could spend $500 on a Snap-On set over the Chinese one at HF however.

Do you still have the same box you installed back in 2009? Is it holding up well? I also saw somewhere in the middle of the thread you installed a filter on the return. I will likely do this at the same time I R&R the box.

Rick
Same box and granted I only have about 15K miles but it's still doing great! I installed the filter to make sure any metal particles didn't get circulated through the steering box over and over again. Not sure it will help extend the life of it but for about $20 (including the fluid I spilled) it was a cheap investment.
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  #146  
Old 07-28-2011, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickbrad View Post
That is a good reminder and friendly advice. I remember borrowing a puller once when I had to pull a harmonic balancer to get to a timing chain on a 318 in a Dodge Dart I had... Uh oh, showing my age now! Parts houses have been doing that forever I guess. Must make it easier to sell parts or something, huh?

I can also bring the steering box to work and use a hydraulic press which sounds like the way to go anyway. We have a large machine shop which is not automotive, but if I am not too brash about it I can likely push the box out of the Pitman arm there. But I have to fixture up something to support the Pitman arm adequately and that is where it might go overboard for what I should be doing at work. I'll try a puller first.
I was able to get my pitman arm off the steering box without to much trouble with a puller, air impact and a hammer. I just mounted the box with the arm still attached into a bench vise using the arm as the clamping point. I removed the nut and tightened the puller down as much as my impact would go and then hammered on the arm and ran the impact down until it popped off. Probably not the best thing for the steering box but since I was replacing it I wasn't to concerned.
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  #147  
Old 07-28-2011, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickbrad View Post

I have already contacted Harvey Foster about a Red-Head steering box after reading and studying your write-up/instructions on how to R&R one. $326 + shipping both ways. A bit more pricey than most I have seen, but it sounds like they are worth the extra cost.
If you get a rebuilt box, even from Ford, all you get is a few new brushing and seals.
Harvey uses needle bearings and hand fits them.

It's a little more but you get what you pay for.
I won't ever get another steering box that does not come from him.
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  #148  
Old 08-23-2011, 08:33 PM
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I have my Red-Head steering gear and I bought a new filtered pump to install at the same time. The pump appears to have some seal leakage and I just decided to start with a clean slate since downsizing from 35" tires to 285/75s.

With a new pump and box, that should pretty much be about all the fluid in the system with the exception of residual stuff in the hoses. I am thinking of removing them from the truck and flushing them before re-building the system.

Should that pretty much cover all the fluid in the steering system, or am I missing something?

2002 F350 7.3L 2WD SRW CC.

Rick
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  #149  
Old 08-24-2011, 05:52 PM
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That should be more than sufficient to purge the old fluid.
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  #150  
Old 09-22-2011, 06:36 AM
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I have a 1999 F-250 Super Duty 7.3 with 69,000 miles, and am having problems with the (?) steering. I have read Monster-4's instructions on replacing the steering box with a red head unit. Will this help when while driving along it feels like a wheel is ready to come off. This happens at no matter what speed. You have to completely come to a stop, then start-up again. This may happen again in a couple miles or 10 miles, or may not happen again during the trip. It doesn't matter if I am pulling my 5th wheel or with no load. Ford garage said it was the steering box and wanted $700 to fix it.
I am very cautious about Ford garages, having 6 bad experiences on a 97 F-150, 97 Mustang and 99 Mini-Van. (heater coil, replaced 3 times in 2 years on F-150, and transmission filter put in backwards causing more problems in F-150 & min-van).
Any suggestions on steering problems?
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Old 09-22-2011, 06:36 AM
 
 
 
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