94 ranger dies leaving walmart lol!

[g_k50]

My understanding is that the ECM's hardly ever fail. I would check the crank sensor first.

[CheapRanger]

Originally Posted by g_k50

My understanding is that the ECM's hardly ever fail. I would check the crank sensor first.

What about a thermal test on this sensor? Heat it up with a hair dryer/heat gun, and see if you get a no start. Then cool it down with a gallon of water and see if it will start.

Some of these sensors (at least my experience with other vehicles) fail when they get hot, and once they have cooled enough, the connection is made like no problem.

[pawpaw]

Originally Posted by orangebanzai

Howdy again!
ok,
i got a stethoscope and cranked engine and got zero noise from injectors ( i think #1 clicked once or twice, but no more, not sure cause was just starting)
ON connectors to coilpacks i got 12.2 vdc on each one
ON testing ECM connectors (top incoming plug had 11.7 vdc, bottom connector from ECm that hooks up to crank shaft sensor plug also had 11.7.
For the hell of it i took ecm back to oreily's to have them test the unit again.....3 passes on machine and it gave me a green light that its OK...now how trust worthy these test machines are ??
so what u think, if no clinking of injectors, is that crank sensor or bad ECm........ha!
thanks for any info!

OK, lets think about this some more.

You say that at KOEO you have B+ at the coilpack & injector harness.

You say with an inductive timing light, you don't have spark & with a stethoscope, you don't hear the injectors click & after re-reading your previous posts about the Noid light test, I believe you had a positive test with them too (as they did't blink), but maybe because of that, you got confused about them not fitting, or working, because they weren't blinking!!!!

They were likely working & what they were saying was that there was NO injector grounding for some reason & you've now confirmed that with your stethoscope test by not hearing the injectors "click"!!!!

Anyway, if the plugs & injectors still aren't working, then the computer isn't supplying ground switching to both of them, for some reason.

For both the spark & injectors to not work, both the crank & cam sensors would have to fail (not likely), or for some reason both of their signals not be reaching the computer, or both of the computers ground switching circuits for both the coilpack & injectors would have to fail.

So as I understand it, right now you still have the origional computer (now many times tested) in the vehicle, is that right?????

Also as I understand it right now, the cam sensor is also the OEM part, but the crank sensor has been replaced, is that right????

If the crank & cam sensors are bad, (not likely imo) & as this vehicle hasn't run in some time now, so it isn't even attempting a cold start, but maybe to convince yourself that the sensors are bad, or are ok, maybe do a continuity test of their coils, or a milli-volt output test, while you crank the engine.

Both of these sensors are very simple items, no internal moving parts, just a coil of wires that sense crank & cam rotation (via induction) & ouput a small voltage signal to the computer, so it knows where the rotation of the crank & cam shafts are, in their cycle, so it can ground switch the coilpack & injectors on at the rght time to cause the engine to run.

So if you test the crank & cam sensors continuity as ok, or have back probed their signal to the computers fire wall connector & know their signals are at least making it that far, but still have the OEM computer in place, me thinks that would earn it, or it's electrical connector, a position close to the top of your suspect list!!!!

Some more review thoughts for pondering.

[jakobe]

you might want to check the altenator as well.

Originally Posted by orangebanzai

thanks man for info...
yes, the idiot lights do come on when i turned key (battery, check engine light etc)..will try the slap the gas tank when i get off from work, and try to hear if fuel pump makes anynoise.
I do remember putting my finger behind the timing belt shroud and could easily move the belt towards the front of shroud, but not up or down..
bet it MIGHT be the belt, kinda hope not, just read on here the trouble the guy had changing out his belt on the same engine i have (4 banger)...
someone said if belt is shot you can be in situation of not being able to start engine at all like me.
if i can stay away from the dealership having to fix this i will be happy and with a heavier wallet!!!!!!!!

[jakobe]

have the altenator checked

[orangebanzai]

hey all!
got an update fer ya!
well i opted for a new crankshaft position sensor unit...
cause the no spark no click in injectors is a symptom
of bad sensor, and my timing belt broke and probably slapped the sensor some...
anyway it was a .. itch to put on due to limited
routing space to run new unit cable etc
finally got it in today, put all pulleys and timing belt back on...
well it didnt help one bit...just cranks with no fire.
whats left???"???
could it be the damn electronic contrl module, even if
o'reilly's passed it as ok etc..
geez.......if its a simple line fuse somewhere i am gonna go join the french foreign legion!!!!!!!!!!!

[pawpaw]

Lets think about this again, the computer can use the camshaft sensors signal to fire the injectors, so if the CKP, or it's wiring has a problem, the computer can still fire the injectors, unless it, or it's ground switching wiring from the injectors is bad & it's not likely that ALL the injectors ground wires are bad, so that sorta leaves us looking at the computers injector ground switching circuit, or the computers ground connection, it seems to me!!!!

[orangebanzai]

thans Pawpaw
guess i will check to make double sure the electronic module is flat and flush on its mounting on the intake manifold...heard if the 3 screws aint tight screwed down its not grounded etc... pretty sure its tight....
truck was running ok til the timing belt broke..
had one big bang. doubt if that would mess up injectors in any way..
oh pawpaw...got me a analog volt meter and counted the swings of meter while hooked up to ecc hookup to count the trouble codes
had an 111, which is ok...113 and 133
none of which really showed anything..koeo

[pawpaw]

P0113=Intake air temp circuit high.
P0133=Upstream bank 1 O2 sensor respose slow.

Did you ever measure & get the CKP sensors PID at the computers firewall connector????

[orangebanzai]

ok unless i am way off in the land of OZ -my 94 ranger doesnt have a computer per se in firewall or truck cab...i just have the ecm on intake manifold to run things...
but i Will figure out what CKP sensors and PID is and check it out...
thanks for your help PawPaw...u the bomb!

[pawpaw]

PID+ Parameter Identification Data & is the electrical signal that the computers information sensors send to it about the things they're measuring.

CKP=Crankshaft Position sensor.

PCM=Powertrain Control Module & is the Computer which I thought resides in the cabin under the dash. It's fed through a connector on the passenger side firewall, anyway thats where you need to know if the crank sensors signal is getting at leas that far, as the next stop is the computer.

The computers diagnostic connector is on the passenger side inner fender wall, behind the power distribution/fuse box & is likely where you used your meter to extract the trouble codes, right????

[orangebanzai]

MY BAD! found the dang pcm right of brake booster and in corner of driver side engine bay with BLACK facing on it..manual said if u had one it would be passenger side engine bay fire wall looking right at u, or under the dash..
i have a whats called a 94 1/2 model, so i got some of 94 crap and soon to be 95 stuff...
anyway, wonder if autozone can test pcm's?
know they sell remanufactors pcms!
hey anyone (Pawpaw); i see where o'reillys auto
has eec-iv code readers that would plug into my diognostic port, no meter counting etc, may catch all the problem codes etc...are they worth a damn?
anyone used one?
how would i track cranksensor reading all the way to the pcm. i dont see where i could tap in anywhere..
sorry for all the bother, shade tree mechanic here!
thanks...

[pawpaw]

On reading the crank sensor PID, you'd have to back probe the computers electrical connector. So follow/look for the crank sensors color coded wire at the computers connector.

Code readers are inexpensive & about all they can do is read & erase codes.

A scantool is more expensive, but does everything a code reader can & more, like read live PID sensor feeds to the computer & run some actuator tests, like cycle the fuel pump on, the evap purge solenoid, IAC, ect, ect, so it can make a trouble shoot go faster & easier.

[orangebanzai]

howdy!
is there anyway to check one's pcm (powertrain control module, also called your computer) to see if its screwed other than draggin one's vehicle to Ford so they can slap their scan equipment on??
for 89 bucks they would run a dignotisic on my truck...
I know autozone cant check them.
thanks

[MikeB 88]

When the computer went bad in my '88 F150, I had it towed the local garage. Like your truck, it just quit running on the home one day.