I'm new here and have spent a couple of days going thru the posts trying to figure out which product to buy. It seems like responses are different depending on the engine so I'm asking for advice on an 08 F-250 with a 6.4L. I see some of you have chips and programs I'm finding at the $1000 plus range. Having just bought this truck my budget won't allow that much. I'd also like to keep initial modifications to a minimum and leave the exhaust (along with the DPF). Concensus seems to favor a custom tune which comes down to a decision for the hardware and the tuner. I'd like to go for better fuel economy and an increase in performance wouldn't hurt - nothing extreme to risk damage at this point. I'll occasionally tow relatively light loads. I've seen reports that almost all the mid range products (bully dog, edge, etc) can either be the best or the worse. What do ya'll think?

 

More often then not you will have damage to your truck with those products, particularly with the new diesel engines unless they change how they do things.

By far the tuner that has the best reports, custom tunes, and ability to monitor your truck's vitals is the Spartan Phalanx. You can actually tune multiple vehicles, get trouble codes from all 9 modules available to the 6.4 and get more sensors then any of those will be able to monitor. I wouldn't mess with those in bold at all. If you don't want to spend the scratch for the Phalanx then do SCT, although, I would strongly urge you to do the Phalanx. Tell Matt that Evan sent you.

 

I am running the Banks 6-gun. While not a custom tune, it does give you several levels of power with the DPF still intact. Banks works in tandem with the pcm so it does not re-program the PCM, but is refines it is the best I can say. It also works with your trans so that is important too. If you are going to give it more power than you need to do something with the transmission too or you will drop it.

Banks maintains the Ford programmed safety's and will shut itself down if there is an issue.

 

Is it shift on the fly?

 

Yes it is. running just the switch right now but plan on getting the PDA. PDA will shift on the fly, read all the trouble codes and read out EGT/all other temps as well.

 

Not really good for the engine or the tranny in the long run.

I doubt it will pull codes from the ABS, TBC , GEM and all the other modules that are in there. To my knowledge the DashDAQ(which is the platform for the Spartan tuner) is the only one that can pull all those codes and be a tuner as well. Otherwise you'll need specialty software like auto enginuity to pull those codes.

As to sensor readings, the list is far more extensive with the DashDAQ then it is with Banks for the same reasons why the DashDAQ is able to pull all the codes from those modules, it can pull sensors from those modules as well.

The only thing that the DashDAQ doesn't do that you would need something like Auto Enginuity or PT DIAG for is to actually program various aspects of those modules or run system tests on those modules.

The mainstream tuner/monitors are way way behind the times, even if the OP gets a different tuner then Spartan's, the DashDAQ is really the way to go as far as monitors go.

 

the banks goes thru a trans learning program so it retains all the info should you switch levels so I think it is fine for the trans.

 

I've been emailing Mike at 5 star and the only SCT for the 6.4 is the Livewire which seems to be about like the Edge Evolution except the mount options aren't great (they either hang on the windshield or screw to the dash like an old cell phone bracket). The only programs aren't 5 star custom tunes but the 4 offered by SCT (tow, performance, and transmission tunes - not sure what the transmission one does, he says it's stock hp and tq). I've also contacted Bill who has the Gryphon unit which is basically an Edge Evolution that he modifies to accept custom tunes. I haven't heard back from him yet on what he has but I"m not sure what to look for either. The Spartan does look like the top of the line - the $1.2K price tag is a little more than I want to spend but I do want to get something that works.

Looking at the Banks 6 gun unit for the 6.4, you spend $1K and still have to have a Palm PDA to see anything. My PDA went out of style when my cell phone did all that it could do. With that you need to again have an add-on docking station to charge the thing. The other option I see is $700 for a tuner and 6 level switch - no monitoring of any kind. They make a lot of stuff but I haven't seen a lot of high acclaims in the forums.

 

The LiveWire is the SCT's problem child. It's got a rocky success rate and it doesn't do everything with the 6.4 that it does with the 6.0. It's too bad you can't get the xCal 3 for the 6.4 and just get the DashDAQ for a monitor(although it will still run you about the same price though, maybe 100 less at best, depending on the deal you get with the sell of the tuner).

 

part of the problem with the banks is the release date. It has only been out since March. They did alot of testing before hand.

Spartan has been out for alot longer so there is more input on the capabilites of that unit.

Just remember whatever you do, you do put your warranty at risk.

 

That's true more now then ever.

 

OK. From this I would conclude that should forget about tuning until I can come up with $1200 for a Spartan unit. The thing I don't understand is this: The Spartan unit uses the Dashdaq unit as a base. This unit does everything from monitoring to gps to playing media. Granted they monitor thousands of points but they're only obtaining data that's on the computer bus. So they're not really inventing anything that's not available to any monitor out there. According to Spartan's information this unit is not required to be plugged in after the flash. That means that whatever tuning is done doesn't depend on the monitoring functions but is a one time download of data (changing ECM information). That could be done by any programmer out there couldn't it. I guess what I'm asking is, can't the guy with the Gryphon unit, using the Evolution programmer, download and change exactly the same parameters in the ECM that the Spartan program does? If that's the case then isn't it really up to who has the best programming skills and not the equipment they use to do the flash with? The big thing that comes up seems to be issues with the "canned" factory programs that cause the problems. It seems like we're really trying to sort out who has the best program, and that doesn't really have a lot to do with the programmer. Am I getting something wrong here?

 

When I look at all the things the Dashdaq screen can do I'm trying to figure out where and how to mount it. I have a Nav unit and just ordered the mod required to hijack the screen with 2 video inputs so I can use the display for a backup camera and RSE dvd player. What would be nice if they would do the same thing with these programmers for those of us who already have a nice built-in screen to use that for a display device.

 

That is true, however, if you were to get the ford license, you can get sensors that you can't get from the other monitor/tuners out there. You can't even get the licenses for the units like the PMT, Scanguage II, or the Insight(there are others, this isn't a comprehensive list), the only way to get those other sensors is with something like AutoEnginuity, which you would still have to get a license for that program as well.

It really boils down to how much information do you want to have at your control.

Yes and no. For changing the ECM and TCM modules it really is a matter of who is the better tuner, however, the Spartan tuner tunes yet a third module that others can't get to unless you have something like PT DIAG. That third module is the FICM. There is no other tuner that gets to that third module out on the market, not even the new SCT tuning device The Xtreme can get to that module(I wouldn't hold out for that one and if you want to know why I can tell you my thoughts on that as well).



That would be true, if all tuners(the devices) just programmed the same modules, but like I mentioned above, Spartan adds that extra module and that puts them above the rest at this point in time.

 

On the DashDAQ website they go into why DashDAQ doesn't interface with other screens. You're not the only one with that question.