ok I have a 428 tbird motor that was built 16,000 miles ago.to replace my 390 ,i'm looking at survival motorsports stroker kit has anyone used them any horror stories? and I'm looking for 4 to 450 hp will a stock block hold up for long ?or should I keep looking for a cj block?..at this point all the engine needs is a cam chain and hv oil pump ,,and eldelbrock heads ...are they as good as the dove enginering heads??

 

Barry was our forum sponsor for a while. He might even chime in for you here if he see's this. He's one of the few very good vendors out there for FE parts. I'm sure he can hook you up with everything needed. As for the std web 428 block it'll be just dandy in that HP range. Edelbrock heads are the staple head most go to. 2 chamber sizes and ex bolt patterns to choose from. They can need some work out of the box so have someone give them the once over. Be sure to get the ARP rocker stud kit. Dove stuff can be hit or miss. Some of their heads are fine and some can leak with porisity problems. Also depending on what's in stock you might have to wait. Aftermarket parts are just that and are not plug and play all the time. Everything needs to be checked to be sure they plays nice with the other parts. It's all in the details.

 

Glenn, Remind me to give you a raise on your next pay check !!

But as glenn said it all in the details and prep work.. I would worry about the standard 428 block in a T-Bird..and making 400 to 450hp.. For one your not going to spin the motor tight..you'll be looking for a low lift higher duration cam for torque..and keeping the rpm down at ot under 6000 rpms...

You havent mentioned just what you want to do with this build ?? your going to want to build for Tq more than looking at the HP curve if your moving that bird.. I myself would rather see big Tq numbers than HP numbers..HP number are for bragging rights..TQ gets your boat down the road.. But also with big Tq number on the street..Its all tire smoke..

Like my Dad use to say (RIP) If your spinnin you aint winnin !!

So I think we need to know a little more about what your planning on doing with this build... JMO...

~Russ

 

Hi an' thank's for the replys...the motor is going into my 68 ranchero GT.390.it is going to be umm just a street toy.long term plan is to do up the c6 auto with a gearvendor overdrive posi or limited slip setup..i'v been warned to stay away from a locker rear on the street..3: 91 gearing or so we don't have many highways here on the island to play on so hot ******* is the game here..oh and I want to use the ford 6pack i have from my 55 meteor.. the 390 is (I hope ) going to be rebuilt later with what I learn with the tbird mill.I know a build up is like girls we all like something different ..in the details..right?.. OH yah ...who is barry?..sorry to plead ignorance but ..I am!!

 

Barry own's Survival Motorsports.

 

Russ thanks for the raise there brudda!!

 

I`m right there w/you. I just pulled a 428 from a `66 T-BIRD and had it magged for cracks before the build. It checked out OK,so now I`m lookin` for a stroker kit, and so far Keith Craft is lookin` good w/ a special they have w/ steel crank and H- beams for $1995. And they have stock Edelbrocks cheaper than Summit and ported ones for a little more.

 

ok now the lites are comeing on..I talked to survival a couple of months ago and realized i need a lot more cash to get what i hope for ..i am trying to gather the parts as money allows.then work on machieneing and blueprinting...and yes I am still trying to seperate dreams from reality..i realy don't like reality...but i do understand haveing a plan and a goal is the first step in achiveing a dream

 

Don't you mean the stock 428 block will "not" cause him any worry? And don't you mean a low duration cam with a lot of lift? At least that's how RV cams make big torque.

 

I'm Here.... I'll try to keep this informational so as not to offend the mods...

The 428 block will easily handle the 450 horsepower - or 550 - even without the extra webbing, so I would not be concerned about that. You only get into marginal territory as you move up to around 600.

The Scat based kits we sell are pretty much drop ins on factory blocks - no grinding or clearance work is required. They package with a 6.700 rod - the I beam is the base part and is certainly good for at least 500+ and likely much more. H beams are an upgrade but we normally use them in race oriented 427 based builds. Rod strength is really concerned more with RPM and piston weight than with power.

On street oriented builds we try to keep cam lifts down around .600 or less, and durations in the mid 230s/low 240s @ .050 depending on the application and the tolerance for/desire for idle quality. Flat tappets work great as long as you're willing to be religious about the break-in procedure. I personally prefer solid lifters over hydraulics, but hydraulic rollers are a very nice but very spendy upgrade, costing an extra 500+.

The off the shelf Edelbrock heads are roughly equivalent to a factory medium riser, and a hair better than a Cobra-Jet. We all use the Summit price as a bench mark, and at that level the heads are a good value - you can spend a grand fixing old iron ones up if you go for the full valves, seats, guiides, springs, retainers deal. As packaged they are perfectly fine at the 450 horsepower level - to get a significant amount more you need to shine them up a bit. Edelbrock is a bit - er - ambitious in the advertised flow rates published for the heads.

I have a 428 stroker headed to the dyno at the end of the month - it is completed and waiting for the out of town customer to come & watch. I'll need a reminder - but would be glad to post the outcome. Its going into a '66 Galaxie - so the application should be similar. Stroke is 4.250 x 4.160 bore (.030 over), has some tuned up Edelbrocks, a .598 lift hydraulic roller, and a Blue Thunder dual plane intake with a 770 Holley.

 

so the big advantage to eldebrock heads is ...loseing 40lb of weight off the front of the car...easier the going on a diet...and the scat kit you have will drop in..?? I read about the oiling mods and blueprinting ..honstly I can chase the threads and deburr the casting ,,and I still have a can of glyptol for painting the inside of the block from my high school days...crap that was...40 years ago!!!!well for the street then my gt heads would be ok for a 400 to 450 build..with a proper overhaul..of a thousand or so for hardened seats and springs ,valves ect? or edelbrocks for 1500$and have a weight advantage??

 

and what about the 6 pac? I know a 4bbl carb is easier to set up but...you know i like it..will it work ? i know things have changed a lot since I last ran this on the street.what about the gas we have now..can you run 10 to 1 ? or is 9.5 as far as you can go?.on 91 octane..

 

hey Barry how did your 428 build up go?the stroker for the 66 galaixy..you said you needed a reminder...hear it is...and what do you think i can expect with a ford 6-pack set up will it let me into the 450 hp range? on your web site you talk about 500 ft lb and 500 hp..is that streetable? or more strip power?...I figger you have experiance that will save me wasted time and money...sorry for the lame quistions but this is my first real build...thanks for your time

 

When I bolted on a 406 3X2 set up on to my worked over 428CJ, there was an instant 1/10 of a second drop in ET, without fine tuning anything. There was another .015 seconds with a bit of fine tuning with the carbs only. This is with a car weighing 3200 pounds running in the high 12s. Once we got all the clutch, suspension and tires solved, the car ran 12.50s. So yeah the 3X2s will support 500 horsepower mainly because the 3X2 would be rated at 860 CFM on the 390, 920 on the 406 and 1070 CFM on a 428. It will also prevent off idle stumble because 6 smaller holes is better than 4 bigger holes.

 

Just got it done Tuesday - have not reported on it anywhere yet. But it did run pretty well.

It was a .030 over 10:1 428 with Edelbrock Stage X heads - basically bigger valves and bowl blending and a really good valve job. Ran it with a hydraulic roller - .594/.598 lift, 234 duration, 112 c/l; a Blue Thunder dual plane and a 770 Street Avenger Holley. Dyno'd on Sunoco 94 from the corner station.

She made 470 horsepower at 5200 RPM, and 503 torque at 4200 RPM. More important was the fact that the torque was at 490 at 3800 and stayed at or above that range 'til 4900 - nearly flat for a wide range. Heck - it made 447 torque at the initial 2500RPM point.

Best timing was at 36-37 degrees total, and jetting on the carb was close out of the box - we went up one step in front to 73s. It could have gone leaner but there is a visible side to side mixture variance in the dual plane engines and we did not want to risk the "in the car" behavior. Average brake specific over the pull was .402 with a variance from .377 to .446 - decent considering the economical carb selection.