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  #16  
Old 09-28-2009, 09:42 AM
gpfarrell gpfarrell is offline
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Yup,I'm that guy and it was worth every penny!The soccer dad has a fun Expy and has been shocking the hell out of Hemi's and Mustangs!

I think I'm him too.

0-60 and 1/4 mile times are quoted because they are an indicator of performance. Nobody likes a slug, but it doesn't mean we all want to drag race 6,000 pound buses.

My supercharged Mercury Marauder is silly quick (and I have had it to the strip a few times), but it really shines on the highway, loaded with the family and headed on vacation. A normal family car would struggle and strain, shifting continually and lack the power to make the occassional quick pass to clear a quagmire of traffic.

With the extra power in our car, long drives are fatigue free. It pulls the mountains in West Virginia without so much as a downshift, just the occasional whine of the Eaton letting you know your really cruising.

I'd like to start using an EL as our family vacation machine, but I dread the thought of 12 hour rides in a slug. Even a comfortable, spacious, slug.

Oh, and if I can get an EL to surprise a Hemi-anything from time to time, that would be fine too.

You're welcome to drive slow if this doesn't interest you. Just please do it in the right lane.
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  #17  
Old 09-28-2009, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by gpfarrell View Post
I think I'm him too.

0-60 and 1/4 mile times are quoted because they are an indicator of performance. Nobody likes a slug, but it doesn't mean we all want to drag race 6,000 pound buses.

My supercharged Mercury Marauder is silly quick (and I have had it to the strip a few times), but it really shines on the highway, loaded with the family and headed on vacation. A normal family car would struggle and strain, shifting continually and lack the power to make the occassional quick pass to clear a quagmire of traffic.

With the extra power in our car, long drives are fatigue free. It pulls the mountains in West Virginia without so much as a downshift, just the occasional whine of the Eaton letting you know your really cruising.

I'd like to start using an EL as our family vacation machine, but I dread the thought of 12 hour rides in a slug. Even a comfortable, spacious, slug.

Oh, and if I can get an EL to surprise a Hemi-anything from time to time, that would be fine too.

You're welcome to drive slow if this doesn't interest you. Just please do it in the right lane.
AMEN to that!
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  #18  
Old 10-10-2009, 01:21 AM
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With the heft of the Expedition, they need to have more passing power as the tranny does not downshift quickly, even when pressing the gas pedal to the floor. Ford should not be using the 6-speed tranny to make up the deficiencies in the 5.4L power. Hopefully, the 6.2L will help as well as having the tranny to downshift quicker.
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  #19  
Old 10-11-2009, 02:41 AM
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Expedition is hardly underpowered.

it just doesn't have enough to suit me. if it had the 350-400 HP motor out the gate like everybody wants...then everybody would be whining about the horrible gas mileage that setup would get.


I just wish I could do a long cruise with my Expy. I used to make a 3,000 mile (1 way) trip each year from Seattle to Austin. Did it 6 yrs in a row...and I think my Expy would be amazing for that trip. Spacious, seats 7 and still has all that room out back for the family crap. The ride is nice and smooth, and a quick blip of the throttle has it in 3rd gear and 2,500-3,000 rpm...which is exactly where these motors love to run for hours


in terms of HP and gearing, the 6 speed really makes up for the "lack" of HP the 5.4 3v has. unlike the Hemi though, the triton motor has 80% of torque available at 1,000 rpm. with a Hemi, you have to rev the **** out of that motor to get any decent HP/TQ. Trust me, I had both motors for >1 yr in the driveway.
Hemi didn't produce any decent HP until 2,000 rpm. And about 3,500 rpm it came into it's own.

was alot of fun to floor her on the highway though. It would pick the front end up and zoom off
with the 2 overdrives, Ford was able to really gear down 1-4 gears. 1st gear is a stump puller. we have a deeper 1st gear than the 5 speed in a F-350.

yeah, she weighs every bit of 6,000 lbs stripped...but it's acceptable performance.
Given the choice, I will take the 5.4 3v any day of the week...and I did. The Hemi was fun, but not really. I don't miss it at all.
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  #20  
Old 10-11-2009, 08:41 AM
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More horsepower does not mean worse gas mileage, in many cases it even means better mileage because of greater engine efficiency. Thats why 600+ HP vipers and corvettes can still get 25mpg + on the highway. Thats why the new ram with 390HP(45 more then the 08s and earlier) actually gets slightly better mileage then the outgoing engine.

The only thing that wrecks your mileage with more HP, is when you plant the pedal to the floor.
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  #21  
Old 10-11-2009, 01:27 PM
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no, that is because they weigh 3,500 lbs and are pushing that much HP

I had 412 HP in my 2006 F-150 and I only saw a 0.5 MPG improvement with the Supercharger.


to get the higher HP, you have bigger CAMs & the injectors will be pumping more fueld. My 2009 Mustang GT can pull 30 MPG on the highway @ 3,600 lbs. But I get a solid 15 mpg city.



all about vehicle weight and loading. the 2009 Ram has a smarter sequential piston system and a better tranny. nothing to do with extra HP. all in the tuning. that is how Ford squeezed 1-2 more MPG out of the 2009 F-150. they are pulling a 15:1 A/F at times of no load
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  #22  
Old 10-11-2009, 03:32 PM
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The stock tuning is horrible on Fords vehicles. Some good custom tuning will do wonders, even on 87 fuel.
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  #23  
Old 10-11-2009, 04:05 PM
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Heck, if that 400+ hp results in no worse gas mileage, then why not? Ford could throw in the twin-turbos also if they wanted to. That way I don't have to plant the gas to the floor every time I needed to pass safely on the highway. I was not talking about towing btw with the most of the torque available at 1k RPM, which it is capable up to 9k pounds. I did not doubt the towing ability. On the highway, I would rather not have the engine to rev that high at 3K rpm for too long, that will certainly drop the highway fuel mileage on a cruise. Having a truck to go on hills on 1K mostly on a cruise would be awesome.
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  #24  
Old 10-13-2009, 05:42 PM
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i like my family hauler.... it came with a 6 ft bed and it suprises alot of hemi and mustangs..... i recently got griped out by my wife when she lost sight of my tail lights when she was doing 110mph in her 06 mustang gt.. but then again that is a diesel that is tuned not a 5.4 and weighs a little over 6k empty
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  #25  
Old 10-24-2009, 07:42 PM
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I don't mean to put a hamper on anyones parade or anything, and I'm a ford man all the way, but they wouldn't sell me a truck so I had to buy a dodge, and mine is not a hemi. What is does have is a little over 350hp (300 stock 4.7L 318) and outruns everything I race [how come I never meet anybody worth racing at a light? like say a 5.0 or newer mustang? ], I severly doubt that ford makes a truck that outruns the current hemi, and in 2010, dodge is coming out with a 390hp 370fpt hemi, so I don't see it happening in the near future either, and I test drove a 3/4 ton dodge with that newer motor in it, at 45mph and on dry pavement, I broke the tires free and left smoke in my rearview by accident. If you wanna blame anyone for this post, blame ford for not selling me a 150 :P And for the guy who said that the hemi doesn't have any low end torque, my 318 pulls a 10,000 pound travel trailer without breaking a sweat at 1500 rpms...and don't get me started on what the hemi is capable of, not to mention that on the hwy, at 90 mphs, it cruises at just under 1300 rpms and the hemi shuts off 4 cyliners when it reaches speed! I'm not ford bashing or anything, but you do have to give credit where credit is due.
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  #26  
Old 10-24-2009, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOrDie_WoW View Post
I don't mean to put a hamper on anyones parade or anything, and I'm a ford man all the way, but they wouldn't sell me a truck so I had to buy a dodge, and mine is not a hemi. What is does have is a little over 350hp (300 stock 4.7L 318) and outruns everything I race [how come I never meet anybody worth racing at a light? like say a 5.0 or newer mustang? ], I severly doubt that ford makes a truck that outruns the current hemi, and in 2010, dodge is coming out with a 390hp 370fpt hemi, so I don't see it happening in the near future either, and I test drove a 3/4 ton dodge with that newer motor in it, at 45mph and on dry pavement, I broke the tires free and left smoke in my rearview by accident. If you wanna blame anyone for this post, blame ford for not selling me a 150 :P And for the guy who said that the hemi doesn't have any low end torque, my 318 pulls a 10,000 pound travel trailer without breaking a sweat at 1500 rpms...and don't get me started on what the hemi is capable of, not to mention that on the hwy, at 90 mphs, it cruises at just under 1300 rpms and the hemi shuts off 4 cyliners when it reaches speed! I'm not ford bashing or anything, but you do have to give credit where credit is due.
I drove a 5.7 hemi (325 HP version) for over 1 yr as my daily driver with my F-150 in the driveway as well. The 5.7 has no low end. It is a car motor. Why do you think the trucks have 3.90 rear gear options? They have to offset the ridiculous low power/torque until the RPM's are achieved

That motor takes at least 2,500-3,000 rpm before it hits its sweet spot.




I am a Member over on DodgeTalk.com...never have heard anybody talking about a 4.7 that way before. The Dodge 4.7 is considered exactly like the Ford 4.6 is...barely adequate. Niether motor is preferred...but they get the job done eventually.


At the end of the day, a stock Dodge will be faster than a stock Ford. I fully admit this. Put them through their paces, and the Dodge will get beat up on. Fact of life. Dodge designed the Ram for speed/HP first, then added functionality. Ford designed the F-150 as a truck first, then came the creature comforts and HP.
Ever wonder why the F-150 is/was the industry leader for so many years?

I've broken the Big 3 trucks into 3 categories. It has held true for many years.

High HP...worthless as a "truck" = Chevy
Good HP, Decent "truck" = Dodge
Great "truck", last in HP = Ford
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  #27  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:05 AM
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I'm only saying that the latest hemi and 4.7 is about the best you can buy, I -love- fords and wish I would have been able to buy an 08 f-150 vs. the 08 1500, but I wasn't able to, and the truck hasn't let me down since I bought it, in every way I believe the 4.7 is better than anything ford had, and the hemi is just plain mean compared to the 4.7, about the only thing I can complain about is that its harder than heck to do a burnout with my 4.7 because of the limited slip rearend and the fact that 3rd gear (its a 4 speed automatic) is realitively useless while towing), and I'm sure I'm doing something wrong cause I've seen others burnout with similar trucks, after two years of hard abuse on the truck (racing everyone I meet at a light, using it as a work truck, opening it up to WOT while near, around dirt just to watch the rooster tails from all fours, and towing my 10,000 poung travel trailer about 5 times a years at about 1500 miles a piece ]and giving the motor no slack cause it has a lifetime engine and tranny warantee]) ect and generally trying to destroy it, its not any more different than it was when I bought it new, so even though I wish I could have bought an f-150, you won't here me complain about my little 4.7 ram, if you don't believe me I will gladly post videos of anything you request , also I while I totally agree with you on one of your views about chevys, I don't on the dodges, dodges have always been the best "beat all to hell and keep going" work trucks, and fords have been the best consumer trucks, on that note, heres a video I made a couple months after I bought it, you'll notice that quite a few of my views expressed in the video haven't changed, although its altogether 20 min long, the more interesting stuff in in the first couple mins the rest is me just ranting about the truck, part two is me towingmy camper, it was 2000 pnds heavier then-> YouTube - 08 Ram 1500 Tour http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o70JRbBGk4M
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Last edited by ReadOrDie_WoW; 10-25-2009 at 12:14 AM. Reason: added a hint...
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  #28  
Old 10-26-2009, 01:43 PM
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at 90 mphs, it cruises at just under 1300 rpms
Uh, you lost me there!
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  #29  
Old 10-26-2009, 10:10 PM
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@ReadOrDie_WoW
I'm pretty certain you've never really driven a Hemi or 5.4 truck much have you?

I'm pushing 4 yrs myself with a 5.4 3v motor, and I've been driving a 4.6 variant (2v & 3v) for almost 3 yrs.

And like I said, I had a Hemi with 5 speed for > 1yr. Put darn near 20,000 miles on it. I think it's safe to say I'm fairly intimate in how they work on a day to day basis.




I think you are experience what most people feel the first time they step up to a V-8. They are in love with the vehicles, and are in awe of the V-8. Especially these newer V-8's. I must admit that when I bought my Hemi, that was the deal sealer. I kinda liked the vehicle, but the test drive was awesome. I floored that puppy from about 20 mph and the Hemi roared it's tune and I was doing a front wheel burnout in a AWD SUV.

Like I said earlier, the Hemi will beat up on the Triton/Titan, and is a fair match for the Tundra. We all acknowledge that. But to claim the 4.7 is anything other than adequate is simply delusional.

Dodge does not grind their cams for truck use. You are mistaking high HP for functional truck usage. The HP and TQ are in areas that are awesome for a car, but not useable for a truck application. Ford does the exact opposite for their 5.4 motor. The 4.6 is a revving motor though.
you can take a Hemi Ram 1500 and a 5.4 F-150 and load them both down with equipment and a trailer.

I will take the F-150 every single day over the Ram. The TQ profiles will give the F-150 the edge, and the 4 or 6 speed (especially the 6 speed) tranny will better utilize the 5.4 engine.


The Ram will struggle off the line until it hits the power band. And at the end of the day, it would probably win a pulling test of acceleration just due to its power characteristics.


But if you use a truck as a truck, the nature of the Ford will be more feasible, and desireable for 99% of people. Ford owns the market for these reasons. You can take a Ford and do any job you want with it. It may not win each category hands down, but it will definetley place at least 2nd. That makes it the best overall. IMO

btw, both my Expy and my Stang have a 0.7 final gear ratio. @ 90 MPH, they and every other vehicle on the road is going to be turning in excess of 2,500 RPM. You are probably running about 45 mph @ 1,300 rpm
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  #30  
Old 10-27-2009, 02:02 PM
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The Hemi itself actually has gobs of tire spinning - stump pulling torque thanks to VVT and changeable-intake-runner-length system. The problem is the transmission behind it cannot handle all that low end power. The 45/545RFE originally debuted behind the 235HP (at the time) 4.7. The old 345HP hemi was already stretching it, and the new 390HP is probably just about over the edge. To help save the transmission Dodge (along with Ford and GM) incorporate torque management, older systems just retarded spark during shifts, newer torque management systems with electronic throttle valves will actually partially close the throttle during shifts, as well as limit the actually throttle opening to maybe 40-70%, (even if the pedal is too the floor) until the engine is over a set RPM, usually 2500-3500 RPM or so. People on the Dodge forum say that its like driving a completely different truck with a torque management delete, just a tap of the throttle from a stop will light them up. Ford has a similar torque management system that can be defeated as well, but the effects aren't as drastic as the Dodge because the 5.4 puts out less power, and the 4R75W is a stronger transmission allowing them to use less torque management in the first place.
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Old 10-27-2009, 02:02 PM
 
 
 
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