The fellow at the local tire shop suggested that since I had so much trouble getting my lug nuts off, I should put a drop or anti-seize on the bolts. It doesn't sound like a good idea to me, but I'd appreciate your opinions.

Full story below, if you care for the read. I won a set of tires on a bet.



I had to threaten the boys at the tires shop and make them remove all my lug nuts so I could retighten them by hand. They gave me the usual line about how their air wrench was set to factory specs, even nobody in the shop knew what that spec might be. (100 foot-pounds, for the curious) After a heated discussion, I suggested that they loosen all mine and I would tighten them myself. I could have been happy then, but the genuis shop owner wanted to argue (loudly, in front of his customers) that his wrenches were set to factory specs. So I gave him the opportunity to bet me a set of new tires that he was right, and then I produced a torque meter capable of measuring up to 350 foot-pounds, calibrated and certified to the Bureau of Standards, and invited to check all his wrenches. I'll have to give him a point for consistency, because all 5 air wrenches were within 5 foot-pounds of each other. Trouble is that they were all between 180 and 185 foot-pounds.

I took a set of the Tiger Paws because they were made in the USA, and left him with a waiting room or people all wanting their wheels tightened by hand. Unfortunately for him, one of them was a local TV news anchor, and I think he will make an issue of it.

 

Nice one, wish I was there to see that!
Most torque ratings are obtained with a clean dry (un-oiled ) thread. The exception is with heated exhaust nuts and bolts which are mostly not torqued . You would have been right again. An oiled thread will overtighten due to reduced friction between the thead and nut face. In spite of that on wheel nuts (due to corrosion) i usually put a tiny drop of oil and tighten to the lower end of the torque spec.

Aeroman.

 

I would not recomend puting anti-seize on the lug nuts*. There really is no reason for it when you think about how often wheels are removed from vehicles compared to other parts. I would not risk it with the chance of them loosening up and having a wheel flying off.

Like you discovered, the main reason why lug nuts cannot be removed by hand is that the shops use air guns instead of 4-ways and torque wrenches to install the lug nuts.

* Exception to rule, if the vehicle is going to be put into storage for an extended leangth of time.


Youtube it and post it here!

 

I'll have to check all the lugs, as well. one was so tight I split the end of my lug wrench. You can't trust anybody anymore.

 

Hi Dave,

Congrats on the free new tires. You know that I should have deleted this entire thread since we don't want your gambling to set a bad example for our younger members.

On second thoughts, most members here are old farts like us, so that's OK.

 

great story dave.
proves that managers aren't paid for what they know but what they can drive the worker bees to produce in the bottom right corner of the monthly report.

one application where i use grease on lug bolt threads. boat trailer used in salt water. also necessary when using stainless steel lug nuts and or studs

careful there copper, some of us are older and *&% more than others.

 

He's probably trying to warp some brake rotors so he gets more repeat business.
More than once I've stopped to help some clueless lady change a flat tire and somebody put those tires on TIGHT. There is no way you can get the tires off with the factory lug wrench.

 

Up here in the Salt belt, a little anti-seize will help with the ability to remove the lug nuts, and the wheel from the rotor/drum. On a couple of my Toyotas, with steel rims no less, we had to get a hammer to get the rim off the car. Good thing it was in the shop and not on the side of the road. Alloy rims are known to corrode right onto rotors-drums and not come off so easy.

Bolts going into aluminum heads/blocks also corrode in place. The alternator on my Sable was a real pain, one of the studs was seized into the aluminum block. Required some thinking and fabrication to get a new alt back on. Basically a big nut was threaded onto the stud that was seized in, and a bolt secures the alt on, with part of the mounting ear trimmed away. I won't be getting the core charge next time...

 

I was going to say, you may want to apply anti-seize on the hub/wheel interface, as I've seen more than a few wheels rusted to the hub centers. Some of them were on tight enough that by the time we hammer them off, we had warped the wheels. (DOH!!!)

I've also stripped out aluminum holes that had steel bolts in them. Any time you have dis-similar metals in contact with each other in the presence of moisture, you get an electric cell forming, which will corrode both parts. A lot of times that will chemically weld the two parts together. It's a good idea to at least put some oil in between those parts. The anti-seize compounds are designed to not leak away from the parts they're applied to, and they won't wash away with water (salt or non-salt), so they also tend to work better than plain grease.

 

Mercury packages an outstanding grease, 2-4-C. has lots water washaway and corrosion inhibitor adds plus teflon for antiseize.

avoid the copper additive antiseize products around salt applications

 

I slime my aero nuts all the time. Don't worry its not an indy car. They won't come loose until you want em to..I live in the salt area also...Not a big deal. Plus I use my impact and I don't go nuts with it...


Dick

 

That's probably the biggest problem with those amateurs using air impact wrenches is a lot of them hammer on the nuts for too long. Even if the wrench was set at a certain torque, if you let it hammer on the fasteners, it will apply more torque than intended. One thing worse than over-torquing is uneven torquing. That will always warp brake rotors or drums.

I've always used grease or oil on the threads and shoulders on the lug nuts on my wheels to prevent galling. Then I use a torque wrench to tighten up to the high end of the specified torque range. If those lug studs can stand up to the pounding of those air impact wrenches, they can take my oiling the threads and hand-tightening with my torque wrench.

Sometimes you might want to remove the wheel and run the nuts with your fingers down the entire length of the studs to see if there is any excessive resistance around depth of the thickness of the mounting face of the wheel. That can indicate worn threads or that the studs may have indeed been over torqued enough to have stretched. Any plastic deformation like that weakens the stud, and it should be replaced.

 

It's the Air Gap between the Nut and Bolt that allows them to come loose. Take away the air gap, then there is no wiggle room for the fasteners to loosen.

 

ARE YOU READY FOR THIS?

As you know I'm in the military. The Air Force as a Propulsion Specialist Craftsman. What we use it for is an anti-seize. Drum roll please.........

6 OZ. BOTTLE OF KAOPECTATE ANTI-DIARRHEAL, UPSET STOMACH RELIEVER, CHERRY FLAVOR.

Of course I'm sure the flavor doesn't matter. I'm not pulling your leg. Our Haz Mat Pharmacy keeps it in stock. This white pasty fluid has a property to it like no other. It is used in the hot sections of the build up of our Pratt & Whitney jet engines for the F-15. I said "HOT" sections, but it is used in the "COLD" sections as well. Cold sections being normal area's that are not in the path of any heat transferable area's. Our chemists have proven it to us its superior properties and since 1979 the Air Force has used it.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it! --------