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  #1  
Old 04-24-2009, 04:56 PM
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Howes fuel treatment

I finally found some of the howes fuel stuff and was wandering if it's worth a shot. I run diesel kleen grey bottle and I know not to mix but does it do anything better different ?
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:20 PM
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Here's an analysis that has been posted here before. Pretty good info. I still run DK because I've had good luck with it and the Howe's isn't as easy to find.

http://www.johnfjensen.com/Diesel_fu...itive_test.pdf
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:40 PM
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I work as a mechanic at a commercial truck shop and we sell howes. It seems to me that howes is much more known in the trucking industry. If you pick up any trucker magazine there is a good chance you will see a couple advertisements for howes. Ive never seen howes in a store and i still run diesel kleen in my own pickup. Maybe ill have to borrow a bottle of this howes from work and see if i notice any difference running it over the diesel kleen.
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:09 PM
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Would not use it....

Howes does not contain cetane improves, just cleaners (maybe lubricity) and anti-gel.

Powerservice (grey bottle) adds cetane improvers and contains lubricity.

Read the small print and claims on Howes and it just states that it adds power... but does not specifically state it has cetane improvers!!! The claim is made by less gelling and the cleaners in the product.

Look a whole case of the stuff on display and notice how the color of many bottles looks different.... it is becuase Howes does not make the stuff they just have a bottler do it... the formulations change (which scares me).

Read their website and really read what they state or "don't state" then read PowerService's site.

Personally, I use Powerservice year-round (grey for 3 seasons and white in winter) at a double-dose rate. I want more lubricity and more cetane boost. I even called Powerservice and they openly stated that triple-dosing would be a waste (the minimal gain is not worth the added cost).

There was a thread on this very topic some time last year where I actually cut and pasted from Howes website to document my point.
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Old 04-24-2009, 08:22 PM
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Here is why I will NOT use Howes diesel fuel additives.... (cut and pasted from an old thread this past winter)...


1) They (Howes) promotes that their product prevents gelling (which I agree it does)... but that is all.

2) They claim it adds power or better mileage, but the slick marketing is that they do NOT state they have cetane improves in the product rather that their product negates the need for using #1D fuel to prevent gelling which we all know using #1D fuel has lower engery content... so their claim is more power by not having to use #1D fuel.

Their marketing claims is just as shaddy as Amsoil's is on their oil products.

Their product does NOT contain cetane improves which is why it costs less. We all know that low cetane levels is what is hurting the performance of our trucks... so Powerservice is a better product than Howes as Powerservice contains cetane improves!!!

Here is the Howes link:

http://www.howeslube.com/products/index.php/category/10

Look at the bottom of the page and read carefully.... especially the part in red!!! Not sure how an additive prolongs filter life? It either filters the fuel or it doesn't!! No where do they mention anything about adding lubricity agents... they just state that it protects at the top of the page, but not even as a "bullet point"... so it must not be a real benefit???

The best cold weather protection available — Howes can lower the Cold Filter Plugging Point by up to 20°F or more.

* Increases fuel economy — reduced requirement for blended fuel, which has lower BTU content.

* Prolongs fuel filter life. Howes reduces contaminants and safely controls water.

* Non-solvent, non-alcohol formula is safe to use in all weather conditions.

* Low cost per treated gallon — one gallon of Winter Treat Plus treats 3000 gallons of fuel.

Again, due to cost and availability and the fact that Powerservice contains cetane improvers and a lubricity agent... it's my choice hands down!!!

Hope this helps educate those that may be using Howes and not seeing the benefits some of us who use Powerservice are seeing!!!

----------------------------------

Here is info I found on the internet about diesel fuel and what to look for.

QUOTE FROM INTERNET: Additives control water year-round. Emulsifiers suspend tiny droplets that pass through the fuel system. De-emulsifiers alter diesel so it won't hold water, so water drops to the bottom of the tank. Water should be removed regularly. Controlling water also helps control organic growth.

Why am I so passionate about this topic.....

A lot of diesel owners try and do the right thing by using additives, but don't realize the differences in them and end up causing damage to their motors... when they thought they were using a quality product.

Again, I do not care what brand people use... just do your research, read the bottles and call the companies... or read this thread.

As you all know, I use Powerservice products which is a "demulsifier" additive versus other brands (not sure which ones unless you read their lables or call the companies)... but you WANT to seperate the water from the fuel versus having the additive collect to it and allowing it to be burned. The big problem is this leads to injector wear and water will not compress when shot through the injector leading to injector damage!!! Powerservice and Stanadyne are demulsifiers (good additives) and Howes is an emulsifier (bad) fuel additive.

Howes = Bad (prevents gelling, but nothing more)

Powerservice = Good (Less expensive and readily available)

Stanadyne = Good (More expensive and not as readily available)

--------------------------------

For the most part, all the diesel motors basically need the same cetane rating to work and function properly and all diesel fuel is basically the same.

The more cetane, the more power. This is why using an additive that adds cetane (Powerservice or Stanadyne) is better than ones that do not (Howes and others). As well, Howes does not add lubrication to ones fuel, just allows for less #1D that has very little lubricity. The only benefit to Howes is anti-gel... and nothing else (not a good thing in my opinion)!!!!!!!

What is confusing is that Ford states that a cetane of 40 is recommended, but since the pumps are not labled, no one really knows.

As well, Ford uses fuel with a cetane of 45 - 50 in their labs and test tracks and this is where the performance numbers (HP and torque) come from as well as overall motor performance.... but in the "real world" we all end up buying diesel fuel with a much lower cetane level and wonder why our truck does not operate like the manufacture stated it would.
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  #6  
Old 04-24-2009, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachbumcook View Post
Here is why I will NOT use Howes diesel fuel additives.... (cut and pasted from an old thread this past winter)...


1) They (Howes) promotes that their product prevents gelling (which I agree it does)... but that is all.

2) They claim it adds power or better mileage, but the slick marketing is that they do NOT state they have cetane improves in the product rather that their product negates the need for using #1D fuel to prevent gelling which we all know using #1D fuel has lower engery content... so their claim is more power by not having to use #1D fuel.

Their marketing claims is just as shaddy as Amsoil's is on their oil products.

Their product does NOT contain cetane improves which is why it costs less. We all know that low cetane levels is what is hurting the performance of our trucks... so Powerservice is a better product than Howes as Powerservice contains cetane improves!!!

Here is the Howes link:

Howes Lubricator: Products

Look at the bottom of the page and read carefully.... especially the part in red!!! Not sure how an additive prolongs filter life? It either filters the fuel or it doesn't!! No where do they mention anything about adding lubricity agents... they just state that it protects at the top of the page, but not even as a "bullet point"... so it must not be a real benefit???

The best cold weather protection available — Howes can lower the Cold Filter Plugging Point by up to 20°F or more.

* Increases fuel economy — reduced requirement for blended fuel, which has lower BTU content.

* Prolongs fuel filter life. Howes reduces contaminants and safely controls water.

* Non-solvent, non-alcohol formula is safe to use in all weather conditions.

* Low cost per treated gallon — one gallon of Winter Treat Plus treats 3000 gallons of fuel.

Again, due to cost and availability and the fact that Powerservice contains cetane improvers and a lubricity agent... it's my choice hands down!!!

Hope this helps educate those that may be using Howes and not seeing the benefits some of us who use Powerservice are seeing!!!

----------------------------------

Here is info I found on the internet about diesel fuel and what to look for.

QUOTE FROM INTERNET: Additives control water year-round. Emulsifiers suspend tiny droplets that pass through the fuel system. De-emulsifiers alter diesel so it won't hold water, so water drops to the bottom of the tank. Water should be removed regularly. Controlling water also helps control organic growth.

Why am I so passionate about this topic.....

A lot of diesel owners try and do the right thing by using additives, but don't realize the differences in them and end up causing damage to their motors... when they thought they were using a quality product.

Again, I do not care what brand people use... just do your research, read the bottles and call the companies... or read this thread.

As you all know, I use Powerservice products which is a "demulsifier" additive versus other brands (not sure which ones unless you read their lables or call the companies)... but you WANT to seperate the water from the fuel versus having the additive collect to it and allowing it to be burned. The big problem is this leads to injector wear and water will not compress when shot through the injector leading to injector damage!!! Powerservice and Stanadyne are demulsifiers (good additives) and Howes is an emulsifier (bad) fuel additive.

Howes = Bad (prevents gelling, but nothing more)

Powerservice = Good (Less expensive and readily available)

Stanadyne = Good (More expensive and not as readily available)

--------------------------------

For the most part, all the diesel motors basically need the same cetane rating to work and function properly and all diesel fuel is basically the same.

The more cetane, the more power. This is why using an additive that adds cetane (Powerservice or Stanadyne) is better than ones that do not (Howes and others). As well, Howes does not add lubrication to ones fuel, just allows for less #1D that has very little lubricity. The only benefit to Howes is anti-gel... and nothing else (not a good thing in my opinion)!!!!!!!

What is confusing is that Ford states that a cetane of 40 is recommended, but since the pumps are not labled, no one really knows.

As well, Ford uses fuel with a cetane of 45 - 50 in their labs and test tracks and this is where the performance numbers (HP and torque) come from as well as overall motor performance.... but in the "real world" we all end up buying diesel fuel with a much lower cetane level and wonder why our truck does not operate like the manufacture stated it would.

You were saying water will not compress leading to injector damage, does this mean that diesel fuel does compress?
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Old 04-24-2009, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljutic ss View Post
You were saying water will not compress leading to injector damage, does this mean that diesel fuel does compress?
Yes... diesel fuel compresses at high pressure and ignites... water does not and will blow the tip right off the injector!!!

Water in your system hopefully gets filtered out at the water seperator (HFCM) unit. This is why it is key to only use a Racor made fuel filter kit. They are the OEM manufacture for Motorcraft and Int'l. I buy mine at the local Int'l truck dealer as they are 1/2 price of what Ford wants for them.

The will-fit filters that NAPA sells (WIX) are not OEM. They lack the outer water-seperator membrame that Racor designed this unit and filter with and in mind.

The key is to use a diesel additive that helps seperates out the water versus mixing with it and allowing it to pass through and burn... but in a diesel... like ours... this is not good!!! This is why any additive with alcohol is NOT to be used. Even if no alcohol, are the additives used going to seperate out the water or allow it to pass along without gelling in the winter... or just ruin your motor.

Water/moisture also causes rust and corrosion... so filtering it out in the HFCM unit on your frame rail is key.
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Old 04-24-2009, 09:52 PM
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All fluids can be compressed to some degree. I will agree that water does not compress very much, but it can be compressed.

I have been using Howes and have not really noticed any real difference. I will probably switch to Diesel Kleen when I run out of the Howes....
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Old 04-24-2009, 09:53 PM
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I have been using the Fitch fuel cell additive for 3 mths in one semi and have seen good results so far. and it claims to add cetane, also it has been endorsed by almost every engine related vehicle magazine. Also have one in my F-250 high compression 460 engine went from using premium to regular unleaded with no knocking.
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Old 04-25-2009, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerman01 View Post
All fluids can be compressed to some degree. I will agree that water does not compress very much, but it can be compressed.
OK... maybe... but not by our motors that generate something like 25,000 PSI at the nozzel tip of the injector.

Don't quote me on this figure and hopefully a certified diesel tech can set me straight if I am wrong... but I do know that these motors push/squeeze the doo-doo out of the fuel when injected!!!

At that pressure... water will blow the tip right off!!!!
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Old 04-25-2009, 05:52 AM
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I would think you can't compress diesel fuel anymore then you can water, I would also think the damage to the injector because of water in the system is due to lack of lubrication in water.
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Old 04-25-2009, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljutic ss View Post
I would think you can't compress diesel fuel anymore then you can water, I would also think the damage to the injector because of water in the system is due to lack of lubrication in water.
From the internet (cut & paste):
If you don't think that water can damage your diesel, let me paint you a less than pretty picture. Let's say you have water in your fuel tank: it could be from bad fuel, or it could have condensed there when you left the tanks nearly empty. It slides easily along with the fuel but, when it reaches the engine, it starts wreaking havoc.

First, it passes through the high-pressure pump where it encourages rust and corrosion on the ferrous metals in the maze of passageways, and then it rinses off the lubrication on the injectors. Given the right conditions, a tiny droplet of water passing through the injector nozzle can turn to steam with explosive force, chipping off part of the opening or misaligning the plunger. The result is a distorted fuel injection pattern that promptly starts to burn a hole in the piston from the focussed heat. Even before that hole is complete, tiny chunks of metal from the piston are being shed into the lubrication system where they devour the bearings.



Here is another sites info (cut and paste):
Being less refined than gasoline, diesel fuel will hold a much larger amount of water in suspension. This suspended water can cause severe problems with water separators installed on the vehicle as well causing the fuel injector tips to explode resulting in extensive repair costs.


Still another sites comments (cut and paste):
Water is the Primary Cause of Blown Pumps and Injectors in Diesel Engines. Water and contaminants have a direct impact on the service life and performance of diesel engines. Besides being abrasive to engine components and cylinder walls, water and contamination displaces diesel fuel's lubricative coating on the high precision injector components, causing tolerance erosion, surface pitting, fuel pressure loss and poor performance.
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Old 04-25-2009, 11:09 AM
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Here is a link with just good general info on why people should use additives.

Do diesel fuel additives really Work? How and Why ! - Truckinfo.net
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Old 04-25-2009, 11:30 AM
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my understanding was that due to the greater surface tension of water compared to diesel that it simply can't pass through the injector tip as fast so the pressure goes up to the point that the metal in the tip can fail. as far as it turning to steam in the injector tip, our injection is something like 25000 psi( i think) whats the boiling point of water at 25000 psi, waaaay more than 212f
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Old 04-25-2009, 12:44 PM
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Howes

From their website.

All Howes Diesel Fuel Additives comply with the federal low sulfur diesel requirements (<15ppm) for use in diesel motor vehicles and non road engines.

Our additives are safe to use in any diesel engine, including '07 and beyond. Howes products demulsify water, contain no alcohol, are particulate filter friendly and will not void any manufacturers warranty.

SUMMARY OF ULSD FUEL STANDARDS:
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regulations intended to improve our air quality went into effect June 1, 2006. They require a major reduction in the sulfur content of diesel fuels and emission levels from diesel engines and vehicles. To meet the EPA standards manufacturers have developed new, highly advanced emission control systems and the petroleum industry is producing ULSD fuel, a cleaner-burning diesel fuel containing a maximum of 15 parts-per-million (ppm) sulfur.

Beginning with the 2007 models, diesel engines and exhausts will be equipped with advanced emissions control systems. While they will be extremely effective in reducing emissions, they are susceptible to damage from higher concentrations of sulfur. Because of this, diesel vehicles produced in 2007 or later must use ULSD only. Owners of 2006 and earlier diesel vehicles may use either ULSD or LSD fuel where it is available.

HOWES PRODUCTS:
Howes products will clean and lubricate fuel injectors, pumps and upper cylinders, adding back lubricity lost in the refining process. Howes Diesel Treat will continue to give you protection against gelling and still carries our famous guarantee - “You Go or We Pay the Tow!”

CANADA:
We would like to inform you about some differences between U.S. and Canadian ULSD requirements. As of June 1, 2006, all production in Canada of diesel fuel must be 15 ppm sulfur or less. As of September 1, 2007, only ULSD fuel is allowed to be sold at the retail level.

Diesel fuel additives are not addressed in Canadian regulations, so there are no corresponding labeling requirements as in the US. It is again important for Canadians to remember, Howes Lubricator Diesel Treat and Meaner Power Kleaner are safe for all diesel engines, including 2007 and newer.

Should you require further information or clarification, please contact our Sales Department at 1-800-438-9080.
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Old 04-25-2009, 12:44 PM
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