1969 Ford F500 Dually Places to look up info on engine and air brakes
Hello to Everyone,
My husband recently purchased a '69 Ford F500 Dually, and is in the process of picking this up and bringing it back to FL from Arkansas.
We have a few questions? Does anyone have suggestions of were online I might be able to get basic info on the hydraulic assisted air brakes system on this model for reference as he's going to service them this weekend? It was modified to use for Firefighting, and luckily, all the tanks, etc have been removed so their is easy access for work in the back. We had a IH Loadstar 1700 4Wheel drive with air brakes, so he has some basic knowledge.
Any suggestions of places that have parts for this age range? Specifically, this weekend we have to locate possible parts (like spacers, etc) as the outer rear dually tires were taken, and are going to have to be replaced. We were unaware of this as the sale pictures carefully avoided this area, so we were didn't know till he arrived at the pickup location late tonight. It looks like it would be driveable as is, but could it damage the rearend doing so? He's going to bring it to lower Alabama, from Little Rock.
Thank You for any links, helpful hints, or info anyone has. I hadn't seen much of anything and am so glad I stumbled upon this forum, and look forward to learning from everyone! Sorry if I rambled, I tried to list everything we encountered at pickup tonight.
Hi and welcome to FTE. I can help a bit here. First off is the rear wheels. Does this truck have steel disc wheels ( similar to a pickup only larger ) or cast spoke wheels? Cast spoke wheels have a large hub and only the rim comes off with the tire. If it has steel disc wheels and the correct lug nuts are there it can be safely driven home with just the inside tires. Cast spokes are another story. The only way they can be driven with one tire is to have a bare rim bolted on with it. Steel discs used a system of inner and outer lug nuts, cast spokes use a system of lug nuts and wedges to retain them. The wedges force the wheels and spacer tight onto the hub. Any attempt to jury rig them will most likely result in the tire flying off.
On the brakes I suspect someone made a mistake on the description. Air assisted hydraulic brakes were used on some trucks however I've never heard of hydraulic assisted air brakes. Most of the F500 - F600 trucks I've seen had vacuum assisted hydraulic brakes. If you could post a few pics of the underside of the truck, most importantly the brake backing plates I can provide further info.
Wheels, spacers and the like can be had thru a truck tire service or independent truck parts store.
I agree with Clay, vac assisted would be correct. Also unless this truck has been out of service for a while, driving it should not be a problem, as most fire fighting equipment is maintained to go when called upon. Without the weight on it stopping should be easier than since new. IMHO
In the cool still quiet hours of night, you can hear chevies rusting away.
Thank You Redcat, and also Jowilker for your knowledge on this one. It was pitch black on his arrival last night for pickup, which made inspection not as easy as it is now.
Redcat, it has the Steel Wheels with a 9" diameter 6 lug pattern. The lug nuts are beveled coming out from the drum, and the studs have a slight bevel as well. So the way it is currently, the lug isn't nice and snug and they need to be snug back up to the wheels. He's having me look for spacer plates, and also, I'm going to call around and see if I can find 2 outer tires this morning.
And yes, it has vacuum assist and it's under the driver side seat.
The engine looks really clean, so Jo's right, they appeared to have had this going recently and yes, they are usually good about maintenance. They just pulled off some parts off of this truck apparently to use on another prior to selling this one. They were not helpful at all when we asked questions prior to purchase. When we bought the IH it was completely the opposite! We were able to talk with the man that maintained it for the last 30+ years, We had full service records, etc. We were able to talk with the father-son volunteers that drove her over the years.
He's getting a new battery now, and checking all fluids and we'll see how the engine cranking go's, or doesn't go. Cross your fingers! I just pray that the mileage is a little better than the IH was...it got between 4-4.5 mph when going downhill with the winds help on your back.
Glad to hear he made it okay. Now that you've answered some questions I can post a bit more. The lug nut you are describing is the outer lug nut. The inner nut is the stud the outer nut threads onto. Look at the stud and you'll see a square surface at the end. This square surface is what the socket goes over to turn the inner nuts. The outer nut wrench size is 1 and 1/2". The inner nut is 13/16" square. This style of wheel is a ball seat wheel. The term ball seat comes from the bevel on the lug nuts. They are often refered to as Budd wheels. They do not require a spacer and anything installed between them will affect the integrity of the lug nuts. Tell your husband to be sure to put a drop of oil on each one as he's installing them. It's no fun when the outer nut siezes to the inner one. He will need an impact wrench or 3/4" drive tools to work with these wheels. Ford used that same 6 lug pattern for many years. Dodge, International and GMC also used them.
I just about did a big oops.
Another thing to keep in mind with these wheels is the lugs nuts are not all the same. The lugs on the right ( passenger side ) of the truck are the common right hand thread but the lugs on the left side are left hand thread. The inner nuts should have an "L" or "R" stamped on the end. I've seen broken parts and lug nuts torched off by folks who didn't know about the left hand threads.
Redcat, Thanks for the heads up on the L R treads on the lugs. Like most men, mine would have torqued first and asked ?'s later!
He's bleed the lines, all but one that the bleeder value was broken off. (I think that was it...this was 12 calls ago) The brakes pumped up, and it's got fresh fuel in it. They lost the key, and jury rigging started it, but it's not easy, so he got keys made.
He started it and pulled around the storage place it's at a few times. The carburetor is acting up. We've ordered a re-built kit, but it's not showing up till 8 Monday am.
He wanted to know if there is anyway gas could be getting into the oil when the Carburetor is flooding?
Thank You Again Carl and Jo for your continued help. Here's what left to get going on the road and everything else seems good.
The AC Inline Booster Fuel pump goes directly to the Mechanical Fuel pump. Could you go directly from the AC Inline Booster Fuel pump to the Carburetor?
The fuel in the oil he thinks is coming mainly from the Accumulator pump on the Carburetor. Their is a diaphragm there in the accumulator pump that's leaking like crazy.
We are trying to find the Carb or a rebuild kit, or even a accumulator pump rebuild kit now. No luck so far...It had an Autolite C8TFM B 8M 5 carb on it and the accumulator pump is attached to it. The NAPA guy was trying to tell me that the '69 Ford F500 V6's are 240 engines, and Gary is staring at the 1 barrell with a"250" stamped on it. He said Autolite doesn't make an Carb for our model. He's calling back now anf talking to someone else.
So far, he's got the brakes pumped up and they are holding fluid. Got keys made, and starts up easily, got new lights for the rear...they had stripped out those when they took off the outer tires.
So, off to find a carb, or kit...an suggestions would be great!
Melissa the part you are refering to as the accumulater pump is actually called the accelerator pump. This could be adding to the confusion for parts. Yes the truck can run with the inline fuel pump. In fact if the mechanical pump fails it too can leak gas into the oil. There were no V6 engines in 69 only inline 6's. They were 240 and 300. Casting numbers on a carb rarely if ever have anything to do with engine size. Does your hubby have any way to send a pic? It might help figure out what carb you have.
The truck and I made it home Monday morning after 2 am. The trip home was a little over 600 miles and no surprises. I tried to keep the speed around 50 and occasionally drifted up to 60. I was afraid 60 was over revving the engine. Before I left I replaced the brake fluid, they pumped up and the booster worked fine. Put in a used battery. Hot wired the ignition. I bought a carburetor kit that had lots of parts but only a couple of the parts were for the Autolite single barrel. I replaced the accelerator pump in the carburetor. Major improvement but it is still dripping a bit around the butterfly shaft. I changed the oil, had the differential and transmission topped up, and fittings lubed. Added rear lights. Aired up the tires. I think thats about it. By the time I got home the rear wheel seals on the driver side started leaking enough show rear end fluid on the tire. The overall condition of the truck seems very good. The transmission is tight and shifts smoothly. The engine runs well and has plenty of pep. I didn't notice any driveability problems. The engine is a 250 inline 6 which I believe is the same as the 300 inline 6 but with higher compression and a shorter stroke. Fords pickup trucks of this year have the 240 inline 6. Some of the passenger cars of this year also have the 250. I will post some pictures of the truck later.
Everyones tips, information and advice has been used well and greatly appreciated!
The most pressing fix is the rear end seal leaking on the driver side rear tires. Anyone know how tuff this would be to DIY?
Hi Gary, Glad to hear you made it home safe and sound. Your wheel seal isn't that big of a project. If you've ever put brakes on the rear of a 3/4 or 1 ton truck it's the same proceedure just bigger parts. If you've never done one please post back and I'll post the rundown. Also please post some pics. I've never seen or heard of a 250 in any truck other than a Ranchero.
The engine is a 250 inline 6 which I believe is the same as the 300 inline 6 but with higher compression and a shorter stroke. Fords pickup trucks of this year have the 240 inline 6. Some of the passenger cars of this year also have the 250. I will post some pictures of the truck later. Gary
There is no such thing as a 250 cid I-6 in any Ford F Series truck.
This was a passenger car/Ranchero engine only used from 1969 thru 1979. It's peanut sized compared to a 240/300.
Your truck has one of these two I-6's:
The engine code is the 4th digit of the VIN.
J = 1965 240 I-6 // A = 1966/74 240 I-6 // B = 1965/96 300 I-6.
This was a grain truck converted for use by the Fire Department. The engine has the 5 freeze plugs on the side which is one of the 250 engine identifying factors. It also has the Autolite carburetor. My guess is that there was a manufacturing run with the 250s in the bigger trucks or the state simply specified and ordered the trucks with 250 engines as an option.
This was a grain truck converted for use by the Fire Department. The engine has the 5 freeze plugs on the side which is one of the 250 engine identifying factors. It also has the Autolite carburetor. My guess is that there was a manufacturing run with the 250s in the bigger trucks or the state simply specified and ordered the trucks with 250 engines as an option. Guess again...because the 240 was standard, the 300 was optional. No 250's PERIOD!
There is NOWAY = NONE that Ford installed a 250 I-6 in any F series truck!
This puny engine, derived from the 1960 Falcon 144 I-6 doesn't have enough torque to pull a sick trollop off a porcelian device!
Since Ford owned Auto-Lite, these carbs were used on most cars/trucks from 1962 thru 1972.
In 1972, Ford was forced by the US Gov't to sell Auto-Lite, as they said Ford had a monopoly on auto parts.
Ford then introduced their new in-house brand of Motorcraft, transfering all the Auto-Lite part numbers over.
Waltz out to your truck, check out the intake manifold.
On the 144/170/200/250 I-6's, the intake manifold is made as part of the cylinder head.
On 240/300 I-6's, the intake manifold BOLTS to the exhaust manifold.
I passed along the VIN engine codes...what is the 4th digit of the VIN?
Bill / Retired Ford Parts Manager / SoCal Chapter Member / Part number research: 1928/2001 trucks & 1928/89 passenger cars.
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