My own Grey vs. Black CPS testing - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums



1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel SPONSORED BY:

My own Grey vs. Black CPS testing

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 04-21-2009, 08:12 PM
Pocket Pocket is online now
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 7,945
Pocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputation
My own Grey vs. Black CPS testing

I had a chance today to compare the grey and black CPS's side by side, and give you guys some results that you can actually see. I took several pictures showing the size variations, as well as showing the differences in the magnetic strength. The results are conclusive, there are distinguishable difference between the two. Check it out with your own eyes.

First, here are the results of AE and the changes in cylinder rotation. Most cylinders remain mostly the same, however notice the distinct changes in the #3 and #8 cylinders. My #8 drops to zero because I'm running a regulated return and an AD injector instead of an LL. Those with LL injectors probably won't see 0% on #8. I put down the ranges that I saw with each cylinder, with the minimum and maximum values seen after monitoring each cylinder for more than 1 minute each. Engine was completely warmed up each time, with extended drive cycles to ensure that testing was fair and equal.

Grey CPS:________ Black CPS:
1) 0.2-1.2%______ 0.2-0.9%
2) 0.7-1.2%______ 0.7-1.2%
3) 1.6-2.4%______ 0.0%
4) 0.0-0.7%______ 0.0-0.8%
5) 0.0%__________ 0.2-0.7%
6) 0.0%__________ 0.0%
7) 0.0%__________ 0.0%
8) 1.7-2.6%______ 0.0%

The next two pictures show the differences in size. The black CPS is obviously wider than the grey, but if you look closely you can see that it is also slightly longer. For the length comparison, I stood them upright side by side on a level surface so you can see the slight difference.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/SVlI4LfVbTpZxLI2SE0cFA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ZOT_x0L0ByM/Se5Yqj44g2I/AAAAAAAAAf4/2x620Vthfa4/s800/cpswidth.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/clfrost/TruckStuff?feat=embedwebsite">Truck stuff</a></td></tr></table>


<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/CHJXCGni3j_O4K1CjunjfQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ZOT_x0L0ByM/Se5YqjBwkTI/AAAAAAAAAfw/Hb7EcnxG9O0/s800/cpslength.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/clfrost/TruckStuff?feat=embedwebsite">Truck stuff</a></td></tr></table>


Now for the last two pictures, I found a washer that was heavy enough that the grey CPS couldn't pick it up off the table, but the black CPS had no trouble picking it up every single time. In fact, the strength difference was incredible, as I could move the black CPS in any direction I wanted and with some force, and the washer wouldn't fall off. The grey one on the other hand could barely lift a corner of the washer off the table, but never could lift the entire thing.

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/rWC40d6Q_5JKkvyR9rVsMw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ZOT_x0L0ByM/Se5Yq39D34I/AAAAAAAAAgA/6spxDsvJJJY/s800/greystrength.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/clfrost/TruckStuff?feat=embedwebsite">Truck stuff</a></td></tr></table>


<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jR-6gVPwZ76wX-wWk3gJzQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ZOT_x0L0ByM/Se5YqgZEtvI/AAAAAAAAAfo/rGXPXo5y45Q/s800/blackstrength.JPG" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/clfrost/TruckStuff?feat=embedwebsite">Truck stuff</a></td></tr></table>


This is all the testing I could think of. Unfortunately I don't have other testing materials such as an oscilloscope to compare signal differences between the two. A while back, Swamps offered to run a test between grey and black CPS's using a cam timing gear, a variable speed motor, and an oscilloscope to see if they could in fact find signal differences between the two sensors. A test like that would verify what many PSD owners have seen with scanners hooked up to their trucks. If they do move forward with that test, I would be very interested to see the results.

On my truck, the grey CPS did not pose enough of a problem to actually trigger a check engine light, or to fail the CCT. However, results may vary with other engines. It is obvious that there is an effect on the #3 and #8 cylinders. Most of the rest remained about the same, with only a small rise on #5 with the black CPS installed.

Right now I am taking a guess that the weaker magnet and slightly shorter sensor has an effect on when the CPS actually picks up the cam timing gear, which would have an effect on injection timing as well. Feel free to discuss or post up ideas or additional information.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-21-2009, 08:36 PM
F350-6's Avatar
F350-6 F350-6 is online now
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 25,897
F350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputation
Either I'm blind, or you're pictures didn't come through. Your results do seem to mirror what others have seen. I noticed the difference in size and magnetic strength also, but was not smart enough to figure out the washer test. I just thought it seemed weaker I'll rep you for thinking of that if they'll let me.

I did notice you failed to mention if you noticed a smoother idle when switching over to the black.

As for discussion, it would seem to me the shorter shaft should have the stronger magnet to compensate and keep the readings accurate. I've wondered what effect the new sensor has on timing, and why it seems to have such a negative effect on #3. Since the index marks on the cam gear are on #1 & #4, it appears to me that the cylinders (in firing order) right before the index marks seem to be affected the worst. Almost as if the timing is retarded until the indention in the cam is read and those injectors are cut short to get back on time.

I wanted to check the timing, but couldn't find the #1 plug wire to hook my light to

Edit: No go on the reps.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-21-2009, 08:43 PM
Pocket Pocket is online now
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 7,945
Pocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputation
Crap, I need to fix the pictures. They showed up at first.

On edit: are they showing up now?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-21-2009, 08:43 PM
zx250's Avatar
zx250 zx250 is online now
Of the next Riffraff East
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Concord NC
Posts: 8,677
zx250 has a brilliant futurezx250 has a brilliant futurezx250 has a brilliant futurezx250 has a brilliant futurezx250 has a brilliant futurezx250 has a brilliant futurezx250 has a brilliant futurezx250 has a brilliant futurezx250 has a brilliant futurezx250 has a brilliant futurezx250 has a brilliant future
Very nice Curtis. I'm going to venture a guess and say you're sticking with the old black one?

EDIT: I can see the pictures.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-21-2009, 08:51 PM
Pocket Pocket is online now
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 7,945
Pocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputation
Sweet, pics are working.

As for which one I'm running.... I'm keeping the black one simply because of the numbers. I did drive around with both, had both idling, and tried to tell if there was any difference between the two. To be honest, I couldn't tell. My truck runs really strong and smooth anyway, and with the numbers I pulled from the grey CPS, it seems that it didn't have as large of an effect as some other people have experienced. I'm sure if I had #3 and #8 cylinders showing 5% change in rotational velocity, then probably at that point I would have noticed a difference in idle tone or in the way the truck ran.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-21-2009, 08:56 PM
F350-6's Avatar
F350-6 F350-6 is online now
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 25,897
F350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputationF350-6 has a superb reputation
I can see the pics now. The biggest difference in idle I noticed was the vibration felt by placing my hand on the stick. Guess you'll just have to take my word for that one. I also noticed it seemed to start a hair quicker, but wrote that off to wishful thinking until others started mentioning it.

I guess what we really need now is someone smart enough to understand all this to cut them open and see what the differences really are. If the old mode of failure had to do with windings, I hope swamps checks this part out as well.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-22-2009, 01:42 AM
Stewart_H's Avatar
Stewart_H Stewart_H is online now
The Nekkid Super Mod
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Central Coast of CA
Posts: 23,992
Stewart_H has a superb reputationStewart_H has a superb reputationStewart_H has a superb reputationStewart_H has a superb reputationStewart_H has a superb reputationStewart_H has a superb reputationStewart_H has a superb reputationStewart_H has a superb reputationStewart_H has a superb reputationStewart_H has a superb reputationStewart_H has a superb reputation
Tried to rep you, got the dreaded "spread it" window.

And here I thought I've spread enough bull....

Stewart
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-22-2009, 01:51 AM
PaysonPSD's Avatar
PaysonPSD PaysonPSD is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Payson, AZ
Posts: 9,549
PaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputationPaysonPSD has a superb reputation
Great post Curtis. Reps to you. And yeah, it let me.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-22-2009, 02:16 AM
4inchlovin's Avatar
4inchlovin 4inchlovin is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Santa Cruz Ca.
Posts: 5,573
4inchlovin has much to be proud of4inchlovin has much to be proud of4inchlovin has much to be proud of4inchlovin has much to be proud of4inchlovin has much to be proud of4inchlovin has much to be proud of4inchlovin has much to be proud of4inchlovin has much to be proud of4inchlovin has much to be proud of4inchlovin has much to be proud of
nice write up Curtis! reps sent!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-22-2009, 02:24 AM
87 F-150 I6's Avatar
87 F-150 I6 87 F-150 I6 is offline
Posting Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 1,327
87 F-150 I6 has a good reputation on FTE.87 F-150 I6 has a good reputation on FTE.
Nice write up, I wish I could have gotten a oscilloscope for you to test this in depth but it sounds like you would need more then just that. I would rep you for all the work put into this but I need to spread "IT" around.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-22-2009, 07:58 AM
theenforcer's Avatar
theenforcer theenforcer is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Buckenderra
Posts: 539
theenforcer has a good reputation on FTE.theenforcer has a good reputation on FTE.
does anyone know why they changed to the grey in the first place, it seems silly to me that they are recalling your trucks to change these over when all you guys are finding them to be worse than what you had..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-22-2009, 08:41 AM
Ponyboychris's Avatar
Ponyboychris Ponyboychris is offline
Hit it!
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Centennial CO
Posts: 6,703
Ponyboychris has much to be proud ofPonyboychris has much to be proud ofPonyboychris has much to be proud ofPonyboychris has much to be proud ofPonyboychris has much to be proud ofPonyboychris has much to be proud ofPonyboychris has much to be proud ofPonyboychris has much to be proud ofPonyboychris has much to be proud of
Nice job Curtis. I'm going to hold out with the black ones I have left for as long as I can.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-22-2009, 09:21 AM
Izzy351's Avatar
Izzy351 Izzy351 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dallas-Ft. Worth
Posts: 14,542
Izzy351 has much to be proud ofIzzy351 has much to be proud ofIzzy351 has much to be proud ofIzzy351 has much to be proud ofIzzy351 has much to be proud ofIzzy351 has much to be proud ofIzzy351 has much to be proud ofIzzy351 has much to be proud ofIzzy351 has much to be proud ofIzzy351 has much to be proud of
Thanks, Curtis. I had mine done under warranty back in October, and I haven't noticed any differences either. I'm going to look at mine as well. Currently running the gray, but I'll look around for a black one...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-22-2009, 10:02 AM
superduty4x4's Avatar
superduty4x4 superduty4x4 is offline
Post Fiend
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Newport, WA
Posts: 12,024
superduty4x4 has much to be proud ofsuperduty4x4 has much to be proud ofsuperduty4x4 has much to be proud ofsuperduty4x4 has much to be proud ofsuperduty4x4 has much to be proud ofsuperduty4x4 has much to be proud ofsuperduty4x4 has much to be proud ofsuperduty4x4 has much to be proud ofsuperduty4x4 has much to be proud of
Nice post Curtis, very informative. By any chance do you still have your old dead (black?)CPS?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-22-2009, 10:53 AM
Pocket Pocket is online now
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 7,945
Pocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputationPocket has a superb reputation
Quote:
Originally Posted by superduty4x4 View Post
Nice post Curtis, very informative. By any chance do you still have your old dead (black?)CPS?
Yes, I was thinking of cutting it open to look inside. I also have another grey one that I can cut apart too, that way I can compare internal differences. Just gotta find time to set aside and pull them apart.
Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pictures of my new truck! DIYiT 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 22 09-28-2013 12:08 AM
Need help to identify: 1990 F-250 5.8 L (351W) - Emission hose & duct hose phoenix_bird 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 3 12-06-2010 04:57 PM
Thick grease under engine natedlee 1999 - 2003 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel 22 10-29-2010 12:48 AM
Electrical thing mounted under hood F150 1991? What is it for? ken2400 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 4 05-02-2010 09:08 AM
How to fix dent in tailgate? flysniper Paint & Bodywork 5 04-15-2009 08:35 AM


Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums >

Tags
1997, 1999, 73, air, black, checking, cps, diesel, f250, f350, ford, gap, grey, sensor, testing, truck, versus

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:28 PM.


This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. FordŽ is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.