The clothes pins were used to hold the lifters up. The lifters on this engine when viewed from the side looks like a upside down T and they install from the bottom. If you dont have clothespins clipped on the other end of the lifter when you pull the camshaft out they will fall into the engine. Not to mention it requires a special tool to install lifters in the engine while still in the car that they dont make anymore.

That is why when someone working on this type of engine and you hear a snap sound and cussing you know that a clothes pin let loose and the lifter dropped into the engine.

 

I know that people are going to completely ignore the information I'm about to give, but I feel as if I need to try to pass this on.

Mineral oil (oil made from cracking crude oil) gets cracked into fractions like 10w, 20w, 30w, 40w, etc. What the tribologists did was to add extenders to make 10w and 20w oil work like it was 30w and 40 or 50w oil. These extenders were prone to breaking down if the oil got too hot, and when it did break down the by-products were acidic.

Oil change intervals were usually specified as 3000 mile for normal driving, or 1500 miles in severe conditions. Severe conditions included stop-and-go, and extreme heat.

By the way, don't take my word for any of this. Do your research. It's not hard, but it can be a little time consuming.

So, the mineral based 10w-30 oils were a worse choice of oil than straight 20w or 30w oil.

Also, the early y-blocks did not have enought 'rake' on the cam lobes. Later y-blocks were ground with more rake to help keep the lifters turning and prevent cam damage.

And finally, Ford changed the material it used to make lifters as time and technology progressed. The later lifters had longer life.

Regarding choice of oil weight; I would not use anything that starts with 5w, I'm pretty sure those oil formulations are for modern engines. I would use strictly 20w-50 or higher synthetic oil in older engines. I use 10w-30 in my wife's 95 Jeep, but that's a roller cam engine with catalytic converters.

And, finally, I once tried using Castrol Syntec 'synthetic' 20w-50 oil in a high mileage Toyota with a 20R engine. That poor engine labored with that 'synthetic' oil. It turns out that Castrol's version of 'synthetic' oil is hydroprocessed mineral oil, not a PAO or ester resin or similarly formulated synthetic oil. Thick, heavy stuff.

When I dumped that Castrol Syntec oil and put in used Mobil1 20w-50 (drained from my 86 Mustang 5.0 engine), the Toyota purred like a kitten. When I let the Toyota go, it had 240,000 miles and ran smoothly. I saw it years later still on the road.

I use Valvoline MaxLife 20w-50 in my MGB and that works quite well with that. I do add either GM EOS or STP Oil Treatment to the MGB. I use Mobil1 20w-50 in my Mustang GT 5.0 HO/SEFI. 150,000 mile and it gets well over 25 MPG on the highway.

One last bit of information; Delvac and other diesel engine oils have a different type of ZDDP than automobile engines. The ZDDP used in diesel engines does not bind to metal like the car ZDDP does.

With enough research on the internet, you can find all of this information.

 

Just 25 mpg highway out of a 5.0L EFI motor?

You should go to a thinner oil, with the 10w30 in my 78 351w with a 2V carb I am getting 22 mpg highway. You should be getting atlest 30 mpg highway out of that engine.

Only way I would use a thicker oil such as 20w-50 (which is way too thick for a 292 considering 90w is rear end gear oil and 50 weight is not that much thinner than that) is if the engine was very high miliage and was either A burning oil or B. had low oil pressure from worn bearings.

But I am not going to argue you prefer to use that and thats your choice, but my owners manual for mine says in temps above 32* to run 20W or SAE 20, from 32*F to -10*F to run 10W and below -10*F to run 5W. Thing is though from what I remember on oils from college is that the multigrade oil thins or thickens based off the engine temp doesnt really mean that 10w30 is always 10w when the engine is cold it starts off 10 weight but when the engine starts running as the oil heats up which happens fairly quickly it starts to thicken. There is another downside to thick oil such as 20w50 besides lower fuel economy is if you drove the car and heated the oil up to where its now a 50 weight oil if you turn the engine off and go into a store or get gas when you go to crank the engine the starter will have a harder time as well as the oil pump to move that thicker oil.

Personally I wouldnt recomend going over 30 weight in a Y block engine, but if the person wants to do it that is their choice. I just provide my knowledge freely on this and let people deside for themself.

So dont take this the wrong way, if you want to run that oil by all means go ahead you are exposed to the vehicle and drive it so you will know how it acts.

But I see you sayd well over 25 MPG but I am curious as to what the mpg on the highway exactly is though. Cause those mustangs are not heavy, I am getting 22 mpg highway out of a 4,000 lb vehicle with the aerodynamics of a brick with a 145hp rated engine and a carb.

On the zinc though check out this.

hy-per lube - for over 50 Years

it is a replacement Zinc additive. They sell it at Oreilly and I saw it today in a hemmings motor news. If you dont want to run that just run a bottle of comp cams break in lube with every oil change. You dont have to drain the oil after putting that break in lube in like some, and its safe to use in both synthetic and convential oil.

 

My sincere apologies for bringing my oil opinion forward. It is only a personal opinion. I do believe 20W is too light. The wifes close tolerance Honda runs 5/20. To get off oil and to the clothes pins:

Most of you have always heard that to change lifters in a Y is very difficult, since they load from the bottom. My 79 year old retired mechanic friend still has his special tool for doing this with engine in position. With timing cover off, radiator out, and cam removed, a special tray is inserted into the cam bores, lifters dropped, and then one by one new lifters inserted to be held up by clothes pins. Then new cam. Pretty cool.

 

no need to appoligize an opinion is just that an opinon. An opinion cant be wrong. I was just curious why hes running 20w50 in a mustang when his should call for 10w30 or something along those lines.

 

You missed my point, or maybe two of my points in this thread.

First of all my point was that the multi grade 10W30 OF THAT ERA was no good. 10W30 of today is MUCH better and as you pointed out will not sludge the engine due to todays additives commonly referred to as detergents.

Leading to my second and probably more important point is the requirement for ZDDP additive in the oil used for ANY engine with a flat tappet cam. In todays world modern engines have roller cams which do not require this additive, SO the oil companies dropped it to save money. There is NO 10W30 on the market that I am aware of that includes this additive. If you're not using one of the "Universal Grades" that I listed, then you need to get the additive, ESPECIALLY for a relatively fresh engine that was rebuilt with fresh cam and lifters.

And the typical response to this is "well I use synthetic." Sorry, but even synthetic oil cannot do what the zinc additive does. It serves as a sacrifical metal for cam life.


Everyone,

It was not my goal to start an OIL THREAD! I do, however, believe that everyone on this forum, which discusses an engine with a flat tappet cam, should be aware of the need for ZDDP oil, or additive.

 

As gently as I can, if what Rusty learned in college is that 20w-50 oil flows like 50w oil, and that multi-viscosity oil gets thicker as temperatures go up, he needs to ask that college for his money back.

On a recent trip to Mountain Home, Id from Boise, and back, I got 28 mpg from an 86 Mustang 5.0 HO and on a trip to Bend, Ore., and back, I got 26.5 including a bit of time spent at about 115 mph.

In a y-block, I recommend Mobil1 or Valvoline Maxlife 20w-50. And add some STP Oil Treatment for 4 cylinder engines.

 

The oils you mentioned are top quality oil, but you had better use a ZDDP additive or your cam and lifter will be shortened in the Y-Block. For a roller cam engine as most all modern engines are, those oils in the proper grade would be great choices. Even the very best synthetic oil will not make of for the lack of the ZDDP sacrificial metal.

 

I hate to say this but I never said multigrade oil in the 50`s was good. I said multigrade oil today is best. Atleast I implied it by saying to use it.

For ZDDP you can do numerous things which I listed in the past you can run comp camps break in oil which even they said was safe to be kept mixed in convential and synthetic oil for 3,000 miles or more (depending on your oil change intervals) down to this one place I found recently that sells a ZDDP additive that is claimed to be better than ZDDP but it doesnt contain zinc.

 

You know with my words getting twisted around this is starting to quickly get personal and will quickly result to personal insults which technically youve already done with I need to go get my money back.

Point is I have gotten up to 25 mpg highway out of a 4,000 lb car with a carb and a 351V8. If your oil is supposed to be so great why are you basically getting as bad gas miliage as a old carbed engine that is larger than yours?

Not to mention I said that multi grade oil thickens when it gets hot so when your engine is hot it will be like a 50 weight oil and when cold it will be a 20 weight. Now if your engine cranks over fine then its not 50 weight oil when cold cause that engine of yours would strain to turn over with 50 weight oil which is what 30 weight less than 80 weight gear oil used in the rear axle.

STP I would NEVER recomend cause its basically a thickening agent which you can get by going with a thicker grade oil such as yours. But STP Oil Treatment doesnt contain the chemical additives in it such as regular oil so you would have diluted oils.

But if you want to think I am wrong here is one website that agrees with what I was taught in Automotive Technology by a ASE Certified Technican.

" By adding polymers to regular oil, chemical engineers can produce an oil that has two effective weights depending on its temperature. Before the engine warms up, the polymers contract and float around without purpose. As the engine reaches operating temperature, the polymers expand to ensure that the oil's viscosity will not fall beyond the lower grade rating.
The worst routine engine wear occurs when you start your car. All the oil is in the oil pan, instead of being distributed throughout the engine. If we used a very thin oil, we could quickly pump our engine its lifeblood through those tiny passages. However, about the time we got to Kroger the oil would be too thin to separate the pistons from the cylinder walls and we have a seized piston. And we have to take all our groceries home on the bus. Double whammy!
The multigrade oil is the answer to our prayers. We get a thin oil for our startups and a medium weight for our actual driving. A 5W-30 grade functions as a 5 weight oil when it's "cold" (ambient air temperature) and a 30 weight when it's "hot" (at the engine operating temperature). Tada!"

It clearly says 5w30 grade functions as a thinner 5 weight oil when cold and 30 weight when hot just like I said. Here is the link if you dont belive me.

multigrade oil@Everything2.com



And yet another site.

"The temperature range the oil is exposed to in most vehicles can be wide, ranging from cold ambient temperatures in the winter before the vehicle is started up to hot operating temperatures when the vehicle is fully warmed up in hot summer weather. A specific oil will have high viscosity when cold and a low viscosity at the engine's operating temperature. The difference in viscosities for any single-grade oil is too large between the extremes of temperature. To bring the difference in viscosities closer together, special polymer additives called viscosity index improvers, or VIIs are added to the oil. These additives make the oil a multi-grade motor oil. The idea is to cause the multi-grade oil to have the viscosity of the base number when cold and the viscosity of second number when hot. This enables one type of oil to be generally used all year, and when multi-grades were initially developed, they were frequently described as all-season oil. The viscosity of a multi-grade oil still varies logarithmically with temperature, but the slope representing the change is lessened. This slope representing the change with temperature depends on the nature and amount of the additives to the base oil."

Heres the link its wikipedia but you have to scroll down to multigrade to read that.

Motor oil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



So if you want to run 20w50 in your mustang go a head, I have 166k miles on a car that had ran 10w30 in it for all its life even when it was up in Seattle and I still get better gas miliage than the sticker said. Point I was making is you dont HAVE to run 20w50 in a 292 cause in 56 they called for straight S.A.E. 20 or 20W and 5W in temps below -32*F. I am not telling people what to run in their engine it is up to the owner but dont go acting like just cause your running 20w50 in your mustang and it works great (as you think) that everyone should. Point is though its going to be 20 weight when cold which will make easy starting but as the engine warms up its going to thicken to 50 weight oil basically which I personally dont know of any civilian car claiming that.

Oh yea on another note the 292 that I have, she has 155,000 miles on her and she has used 20 weight when new but switched over to 10w30 in the 70`s. So its all based off your location though, 50 weight oil is really for very very high temps to keep the oil from breaking down and not providing a layer of oil film on the cylinder walls. 50 weight in my opinion is just too much. 30 weight oil is good though, my 78 oil pressure never drops below 40 psi at idle, cold the oil pressure is around 80 psi but when the engine is hot the oil pressure at idle is 45 psi but when you start moving at 1500 rpm the pressure jumps up to 60 psi. All within normal range.



But besides the ranting that I got onto from what I take as a personal attack on here I am done, all I have to say is that you or anyone else can recomend running 20w50 especially in a Yblock but I would have to disagree with your recomendation because no wheres in the owners manual does it say to run anything other than 20w oil. You will have such a thick oil at operating temperature that you will strain the engine while driving resulting in more fuel consuption as evident by your 5.0 HO EFI mustang that is getting 26 mpg highway at high speeds where as I am getting 25 mpg highway out of a heavier larger engined car with the aerodynamics of a brick basically. That is why I have the opinion that you are running to thick of an oil and I would never recomend 20w50 for a Y block nor recomend anyone using STP Oil Treatment. I have proof that 10w30 isnt going to wear a engine out cause I have a 292 with 55,000 miles more than a avg engine of the 50`s had before having to be torn down for a overhaul and it used 20 weight then later 10w30. I also have a 351 at 166,000 miles that has always had 10w30 used in it and she still pulls 22 in hg vacuum at idle and has great oil pressure and gets great gas miliage.

So everyone that reads this its your choice on what to use, you can belive someone that runs 20w50 in a car that should get no less than 30 mpg in my book on the highway that from what I can tell believes that 10w30 will take out a older engine and would never run a 5w20 or 5w30 in a 292, even though in 56 the owneres manual says to run 5w in extreme cold ambient temperatures or you can belive me who has two vehicles which has had what he belives to be too low of a grade of oil used in it that has more miles on it an still runs like new compared to what the avg engine of that time got before being rebuilt.

I know this is a long post and I appoligize if any of what I stated above comes off as me being a know it all (which I am not I admit I dont know everything) or insulting, but I have grown tired of what I state that is known to be true as evident by two of multiple sources I provided as well as taught by ASE Certified technicans but yet I get a personal "insult" in the sense that I dont know what I am talking about. So go ahead run 20w50 in your engine its not my engine that is being made to work harder an burn more fuel its only causing you to spend more money on fuel on a fuel injection engine.

 

Yep you are right those are not the proper grade for the engines or for different locations but either way you still need ZDDP or a sutiable replacement. You can technically run plain old Vavoline 10w30 in a 292 and be safe by making sure to add a bottle of comp cams break in oil with every oil change.

 

You say that someone is twisting your words? Here are your words;

and

Evidently, you are laboring under a misconception, one that you refuse to let go of.

You believe that oil "thickens as it gets hotter". It does not 'thicken' as it gets hotter, oil's viscosity decreases as it gets hotter. In your parlance, it gets 'thinner' as it gets hotter, not 'thicker'.

20w-50 oil does not change itself to become 50w oil. 20w-50 oil flows like 20w oil but keeps its film strength like 50w oil when it gets hot. 20w-50 oil never flows like 50w oil. Ever.

Your assertion that you would never use an oil as 'thick' as 20w-50 oil is based on your belief that 20w-50 pumps like 50w oil at some point. That will not happen. It will always pump like 20w oil. Always.

 

I dont belive oil thickens as it gets hotte, I know it does. I posted two sites that said the same thing, if you are too insecure to learn something new and keep personally attacking people like youve done in the past then I guess you have no business being on a message board. Cause its very obvious you didnt read any of my statements.

If oil thins as it gets hot as you claim then why dont your engine turn over very slow and strain especially why are you getting the fuel economy of a carbed engine almost on the highway with a fuel injected engine that is smaller than mine?

Point is though your 20w50 oil flows like 20 weight when cold and flows like thicker 50 weight when hot. You dont want to belive that fine dont, but dont spout off false bs and give people advice that you belive to be true when the fact is its not. These old 292`s dont call for 50 weight oil or 20w50 it calls for plain SAE 20 or 20W. Not to mention what about your claim you would never use 5w oil in a 292 cause its to thin its designed for new cars but yet I have a 1956 owners manual (orignal not a reprint) that says to use SAE 5 or 5W oil in temps below -32*F. So I guess that is just one more false information your spouting out. I doubt you even know that 10w30 is 10winter30 which the W means winter points to in cold weather its a 10 weight oil, logic would dictate if you used logic that when in summer or in hot weather it would be the other or 30 weight.

BTW this is not a personal attack, this is an attack on your spreading of false information/advice.

 

To say that "It clearly says 5w30 grade functions as a thinner 5 weight oil when cold and 30 weight when hot..." is not to say that it becomes thicker.

A straight 5w oil would become too thin at higher temperatures to provide a layer of lubrication when it was hot. It would be accurate to say that a 5w-30 oil would flow well at cold temperatures but does not lose its film strength at normal temperatures. It is still flowing like a 5w but its lubrication properties are like those of a 30w when warm. That's not saying that its viscosity has changed, only that its film strength has remained despite being warmed up.

Apples and oranges; viscosity and film strength, oil flow and lubrication. Two features.

Edit; in early motor oils, viscosity was analogous to its lubrication ability, and that was related to operating temperature. The advent of multi-viscosity oil brought a change of classification. That's why they created the NNw-NN type of classification; to reflect both its viscosity and its operating range.

The first article cited, on the 'everything2' site, is apparently written by a non-technical person and is targeted for a non-technical audience. Note that the author puts the word 'thickness' in quotes when explaining viscosity. The term 'thickness' is very relative and non-specific. Viscosity is, of course, the technical term to describe oil's ability to flow.

The wikipedia article is likewise a layman's explanation of motor oil, viscosity and lubrication. We'll need a better source to describe subjects such as film strength.

 

The SAE designation for multi-grade oils includes two grade numbers; for example, 10W-30 designates a common multi-grade oil. Historically, the first number associated with the W (again 'W' is for Winter, not Weight) is not rated at any single temperature. The "10W" means that this oil can be pumped by your engine as well as a single-grade SAE 10 oil can be pumped. "5W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "10W" and "0W" can be pumped at a lower temperature than "5W". The second number, 30, means that the viscosity of this multi-grade oil at 100°C (212°F) operating temperature corresponds to the viscosity of a single-grade 30 oil at same temperature.

Basically 10w30 oil flows and has the same properties of a straight 10 weight oil when cold (hence the 10w or Winter) and at temperature it has the same poperties of a straight 30 weight oil. So where are you getting this that the oil isnt going to thicken when hot when I have provided two sources that claims that the polmers causes the oil to have the same properties or same flow charateristics of the second number when hot. Which is a guess what THICKER oil.

Viscositiy an flow are the same thing. Viscosity is how thick a fluid is thicker it is the harder it is to flow. So thus a 50 weight oil is thicker than a 20 weight oil so it will not flow as easily and since it cant flow as easily it means it cant be pumped as easily putting more stress on your oil pump which is connected to your crankshaft. It will reduce your fuel economy the same way your AC does from your engine having to turn a heavier load such as the compressor.



~EDIT~
You imply that viscoity and thickness are not the same that viscosity is how a fluid flows?

Are you cracked?

Seriouslly viscosity, thickness and how a fluid flows are all related. Either way I am done, I am not going to argue with someone like you that is telling people to run 20w50 in a engine cause your running a 20w50 oil in a engine that calls for 10w30.

I have asked numerous automotive people and they laughed and said they would never run a 20w50 oil that its too thick for any automotive gasoline engine. One guy even said they wouldnt go over a 30 weight, one is running 20w40 but its a special oil rating that his vehicle calls for. Yours doesnt, yours wouldnt call for anything but 10w30 maybe 10w40 but not no 20w50.