Can we get this thread back onto a positive note, please? I have a Four Wheel brand pop-up camper on my '94 F-150 4x4, reg cab LB. The truck handles it very well. The fourth (overload) leaf spring is not even touching with full fuel, water, propane, food, aux battery, etc. I put on air shocks, but don't need them. The listed wieght for the camper is 943. The Four Wheel is a little ligher because it has aluminum frames, instead of wood. For winter camping, the propane furnace and insulation kit for the canvas sides would be "must have" options.

6250 GVW
4425 minus unladen weight
----
1825 payload
+100 remove tailgate
----
1925 available payload
-950 camper
-325 two adults and dog
-200 33 gallons fuel
----
0450 reserve capacity

Jim

 

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.......https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/displaythumbnail.php?&photoid=3189&.jpg

 

>I give up. You win, Okay. The Guy has already said the deal
>went sour and you have never said if you owned a pop-up
>camper or any kind of camper.
> I do not believe even 800lbs over the GVWR would be that
>great a hazard, 1500, 2000 yes. These factory rating are put
>in place more for the legal protection and to reduce
>warrenty claims against the mfr. Taking your examples to an
>extreme does not reinforce your case, it simmply make you
>correct in the extreme case which no one can possible
>disagree with you on.
>
> Does the phrase Obsessive Complusive mean any thing to
>you? Feel to respond, I don't think you will be able to stop
>yourself any way.


Wow, if I respond I have a compulsive disorder. I must be in the wrong forum, I thought I was in the Ford truck towing forum, not the pop psychology forum.

How do you define "that great a hazard"?

No, your right, I'm sure the weight limits set on Ford trucks was set by Ford's legal team and not their engineering team. What do a bunch of slide rule geeks know anyway? No, I mean that! I'm sure there is a safety factor built into the numbers. The 1/2 truck can probably handle 5% to 10% overload, maybe more. Ford just lowered the number to protect themselves from lawsuits, or protect the public from themselves. But its not like Ford makes those numbers available to the general public. So you must have some special sources as to what these numbers are. So why don't you share them with the rest of us compulsive types, because we just can't help ourselves and we need to know.

 

Dan,
I am most sincerly sorry I made the comment about you having an obsessive compulsive disorder. It just seemed like no matter what entry I made to help the other guy out you came back with reasons to not let him use his truck the way he wanted and you were basing it on what could, in my opinion be an acceptable "risk". It was as if you just wanted to challenge me instead of add to the forum. I lost my patience and to be perfectly honest,... I do have an Obsessive compulsive disorder. No big deal, okay.
I have been driving trucks since I was 17, 28 years now. I don't take the numbers on the door lightly, they are guidelines to be followed but I know from experience that the pop up camper would not be a disaster on the road waiting to happen.
By the way I visited your web site and your son is a good looking kid. These are possibly the best years you will have as a parent enjoy them now. It's like this lady said to us as we were walking into the hospital when my daughter was born, Love them to death now because it is hard as hell to do when they get older. Must have had a rebelious teenager.:-)
And again my apologies for the dig.

 

Cottontail,
No big deal, I would like to apologies too. I went back and read some of my posts and I could see where some of my comments could be taking as a challenge, they weren't meant to be, sorry. This is the thing I hate about e-mail and text posting. It's too easy to read between the lines and assign emotions to comments. That and the fact that I’m not the most articulate person on the face of the earth. I also tend to see things in more black and white terms then most. If the weight limits says X, then X it is, do not exceed it. I looked into getting a camper for my 1/2 ton truck but all the ones with the features I wanted were too heavy, but only by a few hundred pounds. But in my view, they were still too heavy. When I bought my truck I didn't know a damn thing about loading it up or it limitations (if I had, I would have gotten a 3/4 ton). I think most first time truck buyers do the same thing. Then when they do find out how limited a 1/2 truck really is, the choice is getting a 3/4 ton or overloading. Overloading is the cheaper of the two options. I’m sure the trucks have a built in safety factor and will probably to ok with a slight overload, but I'm not going to advise someone to do it. That’s why my next truck is going to be a F-350! Can’t wait to see how those new 6 liter power stroke do!

Anyway, no hard feelings, I can appreciate your years of experience with trucks and I’m glad that you are willing to share that experience with the folks on this forum.

As for my son, he’s a little pistol. He never really learned how to walk, he when right from crawling to running. He’ll be two years old next month, he’s growing up too damn fast. I keep telling him to slow down and take his time, but he won’t have any of that. I cherish every minute with him because I know before too long he’ll be grown up and his own person.

Well, gotta go, the boy is waking up from is nap.

 

Group Hug! Group Hug!
My compliments guys - back on an even keel without getting taken to the mat by a moderator. Seriously though, an interesting thread as I appreciate the experience others have had with slightly "pushing" the max GVWR of their truck. I do mean slightly, and done by someone who understands their truck, and its abiltiy to handle the weight, AND stop the weight.
Brian A

 

I've been keeping an eye on a few of these towing and hauling threads recently, and since I tend to see these from the manufacturer's perspective I have a few things I'd like to share:

Number one, the GVWR and GCWR are basically just starting points - I like to think of them as guesstimates based upon the average person's driving habits. Realistically, we cannot say a vehicle is safe if loaded to 6000 pounds and unsafe at 6001 pounds - but we try to pick a number with a decent built-in safety margin if driven at normal speeds in a normal manner by the average driver. Since nobody is really "average", each driver has a different real-world GVWR and GCWR based on their driving habits...but we end up coming up with overall numbers because you really can't trust each driver to determine their own limits.

For example, let's say that a truck is rated by the manufacturer to pull a 10,000 pound trailer. In my opinion, that rating is a good for driving perhaps 65-70mph on flat or relatively rolling country (no steep grades). If you drive 85mph, that same truck is only safe to pull 5,000 pounds...and at higher speeds that number drops off until it isn't safe to pull a trailer at all. The same thing applies for driving up or down steep grades, on really rough roads, if it's really hot, or you drive aggressively, and so on - there are many instances where loading your truck to even the GVWR or GCWR is unsafe.

On the other side, there are many times that you can safely exceed those ratings - especially if you're driving lower speeds, and driving carefully and not making any sudden maneuvers. That same truck rated to pull 10,000 pounds by the manufacturer might be able to pull 15,000 pounds safely at 50mph...and if you crawl along at 30mph you could probably pull 20,000 pounds or more. Farmers do this all the time, and it isn't unusual to see farm trucks loaded wayyyyy beyond the ratings...but they drive very slowly on rural roads, and are used to how their trucks behave when loaded in that fashion. I personally have used my 1/2-ton farm truck to haul over 4,000 pounds in the bed and pull upwards of 15,000 pounds on many occasions...but that's at extremely low speeds and I'd never consider driving anywhere near 60mph with that kind of load. However, there are absolute limits where things like frames and axles fail...I did have to replace my rear axle at one point after I got a little carried away. Oh, and I did replace my tires with ones with a better load rating - the original tires would have blown out with that kind of load on them.

Anyway, when coming up with GVWR and GCWR there are a ton of vehicle factors to take into account (brakes, tires, wheels, axles, springs, frame, engine, tranny, cooling capacity, and so on) and a ton of different driving factors (hills, speed, load center of gravity, etc.) that the best we can do is come up with a one-size-fits-all number that really doesn't fit much of anybody. My current F150 7700 is rated to haul 2,800 pounds in the bed and has a GCWR of 13,500 pounds...but does that mean I can always safely do that no matter how I drive? Nope...all it really means is that it can haul more than my previous truck with a 1,600 pound payload (and a lower GCWR) if driven the same way.

In my opinion - and many will disagree with me - a base-model F150 is safer pulling 10,000 pounds at 45mph than a F350 is pulling the same weight at 85mph. Unfortunately, people don't think that way - they look at the rating on the door, and assume that they can safely pull or haul that much no matter how fast they drive. I particularly love the folks who say it's okay for them to pull a heavy trailer at 100mph because they are a good driver...of course, a person who really *was* a good driver would be smart enough to know how unsafe that was and wouldn't do it in the first place. Then they have an accident, and if they're still alive they try to sue somebody because nobody wants to take responsibility for their own idiocy.

I'd better end this post before I launch off into a full-blown rant.


LK

 

>I particularly love the
>folks who say it's okay for them to pull a heavy trailer at
>100mph because they are a good driver...of course, a person
>who really *was* a good driver would be smart enough to know
>how unsafe that was and wouldn't do it in the first place.
>Then they have an accident, and if they're still alive they
>try to sue somebody because nobody wants to take
>responsibility for their own idiocy.
>
>I'd better end this post before I launch off into a
>full-blown rant.
>
>
>LK

Yeah, I see a lot of that out here (Calif. Bay Area). Our local paper did a poll and asked how people felt about their own driving skills and the skills of other drivers. Of course 95% of the people polled claimed they were good drivers and everyone else sucked. Of course people that think they are good drivers are those jerks that go 80+ mph and weave in and out of traffic on the freeway like a good NASCAR driver. Yeah right, you may be a good driver, but only in your own mind, but the freeway is not a racetrack and you’re not in a racecar. Go out the Sears point or Leguna Seca and test you skills against some really races and a real racetrack, but don't do it on my freeway.

Other factors to consider when overloading is your insurance. Some insures will reject your claim if you’re in an accident and your vehicle was overloaded. Watching someone trying to pull a boat out of a lake when the boat's weight is an overload for the vehicle being used is kinda fun too. Unless you’re waiting to use the ramp. And yes, speed is a major factor in hauling anything. That’s why most states have speed limits for vehicle towing a trailer. In California it's 55mph and you have to stay in the slow lane. In reality, it's haul *** baby. I'm a good driver and the speed limit does not apply to me, just that 5% that say that can't drive.

 

Hey Hitecdan,

Living in the Bay Area (I live in San Mateo, 7 miles south of SFO) you must be familiar with that 200 mile race on Sunday afternoons. You know the one from Lake Tahoe back to the Bay Area. Where all the SUVs are traveling 80-95+mph(faster if you are towing) while drafting(real drafting-not even 1/2 a car length between vehicles)the whole way down from the summit to Sacramento. This is the same stretch they have numerous cautionary signs for the big rigs as well as two runaway truck ramps. I've seen more than a few semis flying down that road with their brakes on fire.
One only needs to drive that route once to realize just how crazy people get when driving their fully loaded(or overloaded as the case may be)vehicles. I must admit though I usually get 1-2 mph better gas mileage when staying in the fast lane at 75-85(something about wanting to live longer usually prompts me to move over) than I do staying over in the slow lane at 60-70.

I think I'll scrap the pop-up camper idea for this truck. It already has a shell on it and I have a project I'm working on that will allow me to attach a wall tent to the back of the truck. If/when I go with a camper I'll probably try and mate it to a one-ton rig dedicated to vacationing only. Or perhaps a motor-home, but those are really expensive with 4x4.

Thanks for everyones input.
Tim
Tim

 

>Hey Hitecdan,
>
>Living in the Bay Area (I live in San Mateo, 7 miles south
>of SFO) you must be familiar with that 200 mile race on
>Sunday afternoons. You know the one from Lake Tahoe back to
>the Bay Area. Where all the SUVs are traveling
>80-95+mph(faster if you are towing) while drafting(real
>drafting-not even 1/2 a car length between vehicles)the
>whole way down from the summit to Sacramento.


Yeah, and most of then are Sierra Club members returning home from Tahoe in their evil SUVs.

Most of the freeways around here are doing 10 to 20 mph during rush hour traffic (880, 101 and 280) and don't get me started on highway 17. On Sundays, the gang is returning home and the traffic is totally insane. Rush hour traffic with all sizes of boat, trailers and RVs in tow. The rule seems to be who ever has the most expensive toys, has the right of way.