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1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 1987 - 1996 Ford F-150, F-250, F-350 and larger pickups - including the 1997 heavy-duty F250/F350+ trucks

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  #1  
Old 03-08-2009, 08:45 PM
metalvolks metalvolks is offline
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Try to answer these questions! 302 with issues...

Hi - this is a long post, but if you would be so kind to read everything I have done and the current issues I would appreciate it... my issues are stumping many people...and I'm about ready to give the truck away!

1987 F150 - 302 with AOD, California emmissions

I just put a rebuilt 302 in the truck. 4 issues here, i'll go through them one at a time. Also, the list below is what I have replaced in addition to the long block:

-Distributor, coil, cap, rotor, wires, plugs
-Fuel filter, injectors, in-tank fuel pump
-TPS, EGR Solenoid, EGR, Coolant temp sensor, T.A.D (thermactor air diverter solenoid), O2 Sensor
-ALL vacuum lines, pcv valve
-used PCM (from Junkyard)
-radiator cap, water pump, thermostat

List of what I have checked to be correctly functioning:
-Air diverter valve, smog pump, air bypass valve, check valves
-IAB, MAP, Air Charge Temperature Sensor (ACT), Knock Sensor

Also, just to mention, I installed new Autometer Oil Pressure and Water Temperature Gauges (both electric).

Problem Number 1: Code 44 (thermacter system inoperative). This code is killing me. I got this code and code 33 right when I got the motor up and running. I got rid of 33 by getting a new EGR Solenoid (it now sends vacuum to open and close the EGR). Then for a brief period of time, it showed NO codes-I thought I was done. Then code 13 came into play. Now its only 44.

Problem Number 2: Running rough (slightly less power)
-I actually had it running great (except for problem 3 and 4), but it had great power and didn't show any codes. One day it broke down. I found that I had the fuel injector harness too close to the EGR pipe (that goes into manifold) and melted a few wires and shorted the 12V (red wire)... this caused the wire and the inline fuse next to the EEC power relay to melt. I spliced in a new inline fuse, took out the entire fuel injector harness and rewired it (soldered and heat shrink tube). I routed to away from the pipe this time. After this and adding the gauges, the truck just isn't running the same. This is when code 13 showed up. I didn't do anything, and the code went away and 44 is now showing up.... now 44 won't go away.... I wonder if the code and this issue go together.

Problem Number 3: Thermostat opens way late... allowing temp to get to 220-225 for a brief period before it goes back to ~195-200 degrees. However, the temp will swing back up to 210 or so sometimes (bad thermostat?)

Problem Number 4: Coolant will explode out of reservior tank after driving it around a while (but not when I let it idle reach operating temp). Everytime it does this I wait till the next morning (cold motor) and add coolant and water up to the full line in the reservoir... then after every drive I have coolant all over the drivers side of the engine bay....(looses probably 1/4 quart of coolant) - After every drive I open the reservior cap and see a stream of small bubbles pop up...this happens for a few minutes. Heater works.

Please help! I need to smog it this month or California will penalize me.

PS - I just was wondering if re-torqing the heads were necessary after the first few warm ups... would this possibly be allowing combustion gasses into the coolant? If so, would re-torquing solve this issue? Or do I have a bad gasket? If this doesnt solve it, I have a big BEEF to pick with the engine builder...

Paul
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:27 PM
aguitarestv aguitarestv is offline
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to me it sound like problem 3 and 4 might be linked. i would say bad thermostat, i would pull it out and check to see if it opens properly (drop it in boiling water) is the coolant still green, any signs of rust or scale in coolant? my brother hada similar problem with his5.0 turns out that the water jackets in the heads are shot, plus there was a small line on the back of the intake to the egr? but entire line was clogged causing all kinds of problems. though i dont think this would be a problem on a rebuilt motor. also in the coolant reservior, is there to fill lines? one for hot and one for cold? that got me once and over filled the system.
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:33 PM
metalvolks metalvolks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aguitarestv View Post
to me it sound like problem 3 and 4 might be linked. i would say bad thermostat, i would pull it out and check to see if it opens properly (drop it in boiling water) is the coolant still green, any signs of rust or scale in coolant? my brother hada similar problem with his5.0 turns out that the water jackets in the heads are shot, plus there was a small line on the back of the intake to the egr? but entire line was clogged causing all kinds of problems. though i dont think this would be a problem on a rebuilt motor. also in the coolant reservior, is there to fill lines? one for hot and one for cold? that got me once and over filled the system.
I was thinking bad thermostat (even though its brand new). Coolant is still green.... I drianed out a quart and it looks pretty clean... just a little bit of fine, fine dust looking particles in the bottom of the container...

Regarding fill lines, there is only one line.. says to fill cold.

Should I be re-torquing the heads after a few warm ups? Would that take care of the problem?

Paul
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:38 PM
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can't really help with the codes, but your cooling problem is a vapor lock, get this out, might not have any more codes. start the truck with the radiator cap off. turn heater on all the way hot with fan on. let it sit and idle. watch inside the rad, as bubbles come up. you will notice that as the bubbles come up, the coolent level will start to drop. add coolant as needed. when the vapor lock comes to the top, it will either come flying out the rad like boiling over,[ just catch it with a pan undernieth], or the level will just drop. someimes squeezing the top hose helps. when you have toped off, and don't see anymore bubbles, or very few, put the cap on, and fill the reserve bottle 1/2 way. be patient, this takes a while, and if you rush, you'll still have a vapor lock. could take as much as an hour.
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:44 PM
aguitarestv aguitarestv is offline
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well the heads should have been re-torqued after motor was running right and brought up to opperating temp., are they iron or aluminum? i have herd the aluminum ones should torqued, re-torqued warm, and then cold again. dont know if this will take care of your problem, but should save your head gaskets
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:49 PM
metalvolks metalvolks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aguitarestv View Post
well the heads should have been re-torqued after motor was running right and brought up to opperating temp., are they iron or aluminum? i have herd the aluminum ones should torqued, re-torqued warm, and then cold again. dont know if this will take care of your problem, but should save your head gaskets
That might be my issue - I haven't retorqed them yet. They are stock-iron. I can imagine aluminum needing this, but iron?
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:52 PM
aguitarestv aguitarestv is offline
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no iron just needs to be re-torqued once, when there warm, just to be o the safe side
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Old 03-08-2009, 11:34 PM
metalvolks metalvolks is offline
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Originally Posted by aguitarestv View Post
no iron just needs to be re-torqued once, when there warm, just to be o the safe side
Result: I pulled off the driver's valve cover to retorque the bolts. Spec is 65-72 ft lbs. I set my nice torque wrench to 70 ft lbs. All of the bolts inside of the valve cover were perfect (around 70-72 ft lbs). The bolts by the exhaust manifold were a little bit looser (around 65 ft lbs). I'm wondering if the exhaust side of the heads get hotter which would make the bolts a little bit looser after break in? Anyway, nothing too loose.... I'm probably not going to take off the other valve cover since its a pain in the a$$ with that intake manifold... I'll just see if the bottom head bolts need any tightening....

Any thoughts?

Paul
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Old 03-09-2009, 12:46 AM
88n94 88n94 is offline
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I would agree on the bad thermostat. I wouldn't bother trying to test the one that's in there now, I would get a Ford Motorcraft thermostat. What kind of warranty is your rebuilt engine supposed to have?
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:03 AM
metalvolks metalvolks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 88n94 View Post
I would agree on the bad thermostat. I wouldn't bother trying to test the one that's in there now, I would get a Ford Motorcraft thermostat. What kind of warranty is your rebuilt engine supposed to have?

It's a one year or 12K warranty.... i can replace the t-stat, but what about the bubbles in my coolant.... they are there even when the motor is running.... albeit just a small trickle of bubbles... and they continue after i shut the motor off as well. Is this because of not bleeding the system or because I have head gasket leaks?

Paul
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:03 AM
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deeznuts822 deeznuts822 is offline
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Code 44is the air pump code. Did u remove the polution stuff? If i was u i would find a replacment wiring harness since it ran fine before the meltdown. As for the overheating,if u bought a new stat go to ford. Ive had sum bad luck with store brand stats doing just as u describe. U could let it run with the cap off and squeeze the top hose to bleed the air. this has worked for my truck after a timing chain change
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:08 AM
88n94 88n94 is offline
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I'm sure all the air would be out of the cooling system by now. I would try a different thermostat and go from there.
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:12 AM
pnp522 pnp522 is offline
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Check to see if the radiator is plugged up. After replacing 3 thermostats I pulled the radiator. You could see the coolant flowing but with the cross flow style it was only flowing through the top few row of tubes. After replacement no more heating problems. 93 F-150 with 302.
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:18 AM
metalvolks metalvolks is offline
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Like I said before, I agree, the T-stat is probably at fault for the temp variance... however, the radiator worked fine with the old motor. Should it be clogged a week later (allbeit with all new fluid)? Possibly, but I still don't know why I have air in my system.... i've test driven it about 15 times and each time it has the same amount of air bubbles that seem to come out of the fluid reservoir... Something is pressurizing the coolant. I think I might know the answer, but a reputible engine builder should know how to correctly install head gaskets right? Can head gaskets be bad brand-new? Sorry, for being so candid, but after working on this motor day and night for a a few weeks and spending quite a bit of money on parts, I'm about ready to burst....

Paul
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:20 AM
metalvolks metalvolks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeznuts822 View Post
Code 44is the air pump code. Did u remove the polution stuff? If i was u i would find a replacment wiring harness since it ran fine before the meltdown. As for the overheating,if u bought a new stat go to ford. Ive had sum bad luck with store brand stats doing just as u describe. U could let it run with the cap off and squeeze the top hose to bleed the air. this has worked for my truck after a timing chain change
Nope, all smog stuff is on the motor (have to for California)... I tested each piece of this system... it works as it should. I used the comprehensive ALLDATA information from Autozone's website... fantastic information.

Regarding the coolant... I ran it with the cap off like 3 times.... still, the same amount of flowing over and the same amount of bubbles each time... Agreed, T-stat needs changing, but that's not the underlying cause.

Paul
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:20 AM
 
 
 
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