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Old 02-19-2009, 10:47 PM
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Hydrogen?

thought i'd post this here,

anyone tried hydrogen injection:

Products*-*Hydrorunner - Double your Gas Mileage While Keeping it Green!
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Old 02-20-2009, 09:13 AM
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NEVER purchase an HHO kit. If you ever want to experiment with HHO, build it yourself.

I can't believe they are charging up to $7000 for an HHO kit for diesel trucks. This company is 100% a rip off. They are producing HHO (Brown's gas) in the exact same way that everyone else is doing it. They are simply using electrolysis, which by the way is the most inefficient way known to create hydrogen.

I've also figured out how they got their mileage claims. They are coupling their HHO system with electronic tuning. For their Powerstroke test, they threw on a chip with their HHO setup. When you add a chip to a Powerstroke, the PCM can no longer accurately calculate fuel mileage, so the mileage according to the PCM goes up considerably. This is exactly what they did in their experiments. It is impossible to get a Powerstroke to reach 30+ MPG with HHO. Even the "testing facility" couldn't verify the results, since they only tracked mileage by reading what the PCM was displaying. Heck, even I can get my PSD to display 30 MPG through the PCM. I find it convenient on their test that they didn't show throttle positioning, as well as a few other very important tidbits.

These people are a fraud, plain and simple. Mileage claims are bogus, and their price for a simple HHO kit is outrageous. The amount of HHO gas produced is directly related to the amount of electrical current passing through the water, period. Adding a catalyst only slightly increases the efficiency of gas production, but it's still the most inefficient way of making hydrogen. Simply put, there is not enough amps produced in a vehicles electrical system to create that much HHO to increase mileage by over 80% as this company claims. A while back I saw a test that was done, and it was found that in order to increase mileage on a small gas engine by 40%, you needed 1500 amps of current to provide enough HHO through electrolysis. Your typical circuit that you would hook an HHO setup to would run 30-50 amps. Big difference.

There are diesel and gas engines that have been run on hydrogen gas. In EVERY experiment, pure hydrogen was stored in liquid form in storage tanks, and injected into the engine. The only engine I have ever known of to run entirely on HHO using electrolysis was a small 2hp lawnmower engine. Even then, they ran more current through the water than any vehicle could produce, and it was only enough HHO to barely keep the lawnmower idling.

Like I said earlier, never purchase an HHO kit. If you want to experiment, build one yourself. If you want to test and see if it works, wire your HHO kit to an on/off switch. While driving down the road (flat road, maintain speed and pedal position, cruise off), have the HHO setup turned off. Without changing speed or pedal position, flip the HHO system on. If HHO did in fact provide enough gas to increase mileage, your speed would automatically increase without moving the pedal. This test works on Powerstrokes because PSD's don't monitor the amount of incoming air (including hydrogen injection), so the fueling rate remains unchanged.
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:11 AM
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thanks. It sounded too good to be true. What's the best mpg I can expect from a 7.3l Excursion with intake/exhaust/tuner?
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Old 02-20-2009, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cldomson1 View Post
thanks. It sounded too good to be true. What's the best mpg I can expect from a 7.3l Excursion with intake/exhaust/tuner?
A lot has to do with your driving style, where you live, and what your normal commute is like. Although you might see quite a few posts about Superduties and Excursions getting over 20 mpg, its actually quite rare to get one that is an actual verified 20+ mpg fuel sipper. To be more realistic when it comes to mileage, if you are getting close to 18 mpg on the highway with very easy driving, then you are doing very well.

Intake and exhaust mods are not mileage mods, contrary to what you may have heard. If you are truely driving for mileage, then it means you are taking it very easy on the engine. In this situation, the stock intake and exhaust are flowing enough to not cause a hit on mileage (the only two exceptions are 1) towing, and 2) if your truck is equipped with a catalytic converter, since those have been known to clog up and cause serious power and mileage reductions). Intake and exhaust mods are designed to allow the engine to breath better, and the engine really only takes advantage of this when you are putting additional power to the wheels (and using that power too). But if you aren't using that power, then the upgraded intake and exhaust aren't really doing anything to benefit. So don't consider those two as "mileage" mods, they are more accurately described as "supporting" mods.

As for a chip or programmer, sure some can increase mileage, but it again boils down to your driving style, where you live, and your normal daily commute. With any chip, you increase the power potential of your engine, and thus increase the potential to reduce mileage. It's the fun factor that's hard to resist

It is always recommended that if you do get a chip, that it's a wise decision to also upgrade the intake and exhaust, as well as add some gauges. Because of the extra power potential, it's best to ensure that you do have adequate air and exhaust flow when it's needed, rather than be held back by the stock setup. But again, it all depends on your driving style, and of course if you tow or not.

My parents have a 2003 PSD (one of the last with the 7.3L). They do have a chip, but still run the stock intake and exhaust. They get great mileage, and can many times reach 18 mpg on the highway when they decide to drive like old folks. I know when I added an intake and exhaust, my mileage was completely unchanged. A chip gave me another 0.5 mpg, but that was about it. Mostly because I already drive like a bat out of hell.

Sorry for the long winded responses today, I dont' know what's into me lately
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket View Post
NEVER purchase an HHO kit. If you ever want to experiment with HHO, build it yourself.

I can't believe they are charging up to $7000 for an HHO kit for diesel trucks. This company is 100% a rip off. They are producing HHO (Brown's gas) in the exact same way that everyone else is doing it. They are simply using electrolysis, which by the way is the most inefficient way known to create hydrogen.

I've also figured out how they got their mileage claims. They are coupling their HHO system with electronic tuning. For their Powerstroke test, they threw on a chip with their HHO setup. When you add a chip to a Powerstroke, the PCM can no longer accurately calculate fuel mileage, so the mileage according to the PCM goes up considerably. This is exactly what they did in their experiments. It is impossible to get a Powerstroke to reach 30+ MPG with HHO. Even the "testing facility" couldn't verify the results, since they only tracked mileage by reading what the PCM was displaying. Heck, even I can get my PSD to display 30 MPG through the PCM. I find it convenient on their test that they didn't show throttle positioning, as well as a few other very important tidbits.

These people are a fraud, plain and simple. Mileage claims are bogus, and their price for a simple HHO kit is outrageous. The amount of HHO gas produced is directly related to the amount of electrical current passing through the water, period. Adding a catalyst only slightly increases the efficiency of gas production, but it's still the most inefficient way of making hydrogen. Simply put, there is not enough amps produced in a vehicles electrical system to create that much HHO to increase mileage by over 80% as this company claims. A while back I saw a test that was done, and it was found that in order to increase mileage on a small gas engine by 40%, you needed 1500 amps of current to provide enough HHO through electrolysis. Your typical circuit that you would hook an HHO setup to would run 30-50 amps. Big difference.

There are diesel and gas engines that have been run on hydrogen gas. In EVERY experiment, pure hydrogen was stored in liquid form in storage tanks, and injected into the engine. The only engine I have ever known of to run entirely on HHO using electrolysis was a small 2hp lawnmower engine. Even then, they ran more current through the water than any vehicle could produce, and it was only enough HHO to barely keep the lawnmower idling.

Like I said earlier, never purchase an HHO kit. If you want to experiment, build one yourself. If you want to test and see if it works, wire your HHO kit to an on/off switch. While driving down the road (flat road, maintain speed and pedal position, cruise off), have the HHO setup turned off. Without changing speed or pedal position, flip the HHO system on. If HHO did in fact provide enough gas to increase mileage, your speed would automatically increase without moving the pedal. This test works on Powerstrokes because PSD's don't monitor the amount of incoming air (including hydrogen injection), so the fueling rate remains unchanged.
How can we make a hyd generator, that sounds like something I would try.
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:58 PM
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Google homemade HHO generator and you will see hundreds of websites showing exactly how quick and easy they are to build! A buddy of mine did one and put it on a Grande Cherokee and gained about 4mpg's on the interstate....and his was a quick and small generator too. The bigger you build them, the more HHO you produce, with the greater potential for fuel mileage gains. But on the same note, the bigger it is, the more power is takes to run it.

I've thought about making one one day over a few beers to try on my '03 F350 6.0 just for kicks to see what it does, but I can already pull 19-20mpgs interstate (hand calculated).
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Old 03-11-2009, 09:40 PM
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I would like to try to get one of my old v-8's to run on just hydrogen.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:11 PM
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One thing that kills me that is often left out is "How much energy does it take to break apart a water molecule". It takes a lot, so unless you're getting your electricity from either wind, solar, or hydroelectric, you need to see if it is really saving money to do this. The same needs to be said about electric cars... People plug in, but have no idea where the power is coming from. Just my 2 cents, might be off on a tangent again...
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:38 PM
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Note that while i have never tested this, a small generator is insanely easy to make hydrogen is produced by passing an eletric current through water preferrably with a catalyst that produces no byproduct like potassim hydr... forget the word know it starts with hyrdo heh... look up smack boosters not advertising the man but he does provide alot of (free) videos with info on supposedly how system works and even how to produce one though use at your own risk he even has videos of using it on his own car. THOUGH do note that while i beleive this system is entirely possible i can provide no solid evidence that it works and with the sensors in engines i would imagine this system would be remarkably easier to use on older trucks that don't have the computers that are as smart as you would find in newer ones.

Note: this could all be too good to be true just like the theory that gas expands when heated producing more volume more volume = more gas milage... perhaps it is all to good to be true but we will never know unless we try.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cldomson1 View Post
thanks. It sounded too good to be true. What's the best mpg I can expect from a 7.3l Excursion with intake/exhaust/tuner?
Here's a link to my log for my Excursion.
The X (Ford Excursion) | Fuelly

There are a couple more 7.3 X's on there too.

I haven't found any data that necessarily supports that adding an intake or an exhaust makes MPG better. I'd like to see a log that supports if it is true.
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Old 04-13-2009, 09:18 AM
 
 
 
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