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  #1  
Old 01-21-2009, 11:58 PM
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Negatives of Algae bio diesel

First off, I'm a supporter of Algae bio diesel and all bio diesel research

Here's my story, I'm a in CX debate and district is in a few weeks and its already matching up that my team is going to be going head up against an old enemy team. Anyhoo after some scouting I've found out that their case is to do some smudging of the DOE budget at allocate 1 billion dollars into bio diesel research. Generally these hard core debates between two good teams end up debating small stupid details and don't involve the actual plan at all. This year I am going to ram their plan head on because I know they don't know anything about bio-diesel.

So, here's my question can ya'll help me out and give me any and all negatives associated with it. Higher gelling temps or anything like that?
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Old 01-22-2009, 07:55 AM
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Sorry...........I know of no negatives regarding algae biodiesel..........
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:04 AM
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Thats what I was afraid of. I'm scouring the net for even the smallest negs, such as higher gell point or such, but am having serious trouble trying to find any.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:27 AM
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Biodiesel in general is a winner.
Algal Biodiesel is a double win because it does not affect food crops, as plant based BD can.
The one negative, and this is BD in general not specific to algal BD, is a slight increase of NOx emissions. NOx is a generic term for a group of nitrogen oxygen compounds that are formed during combustion, it is a pollutant. The EPA has a mandate to reduce NOx emissions and work is proceding on developing a method to do that. One promising technique involves extracting hydrogen from fuel before it is burned then injecting this hydrogen into the exhaust stream under specific conditions the result is Nitrogen and water. Here is a link to a page on the subject
Nox reduction system for diesel engines, using hydrogen selective catalytic reduction invention
You may have to copy and past to get this link to work.
There are other techniques being worked on.

While there an increase in NOx from use of BD virtually all other pollutants are decreased, including CO2 and sulpher compounds.
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:32 AM
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Thanks, thats exactly something I am looking for, they won't have a clue about BD decreasing other pollutants or NOX reduction.
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Old 01-22-2009, 03:05 PM
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Here is a link on the subject of BD emissions

http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/f.../emissions.PDF
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:03 PM
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I thought you were just interested in negitives.............

Some good info here: First Algae Biodiesel Plant Goes Online: April 1, 2008 : Gas 2.0
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Old 01-22-2009, 10:08 PM
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i have heard that algae biodiesel is less stable than veggie biodiesel.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:24 PM
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oops fabman, your right, what I meant to say is they won't know about decreasing pollutants and NOX reduction, so I can run that BD causes much higher NOX amounts without fearing they can refute it.
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Old 01-25-2009, 10:51 AM
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I have a chemist friend who has been in VO industry for over 25yrs. He is concerned about the potential it may not smell very good. The algae has alot of similarities to fish oil - chemically. The stability of ALL vegetable-based oils is a big issue. The biodiesel industry is struggling to extend the shelf-life of its fuel. Currently, no bio-d at the pump meets the ASTM standards for fuel. This is largely why no OEM recommends more than a B5 blend in their vehicles.
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Old 01-26-2009, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkySkiJason View Post
Currently, no bio-d at the pump meets the ASTM standards for fuel. This is largely why no OEM recommends more than a B5 blend in their vehicles.

A little correction here if B5 is blended with good quality BD, meets ASTM D6751 for blend stock, it will meet the ASTM standard for petro diesel ASTM D975.

As of June last year the ASTM International D02 Main Committee approved a change to ASTM D6751 that provides a standard for B6 thru B20.

You will have to give the EMA (Engine Manufacturers Association) a little time to evaluate it and ensure their engines wont have problems with it.

By the way the OEM is only responding to EMA recommendations with their B5 limits. That limit was there because there was no standard for BD other than that for blending stock.
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Old 01-26-2009, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phydeaux88 View Post
A little correction here if B5 is blended with good quality BD, meets ASTM D6751 for blend stock, it will meet the ASTM standard for petro diesel ASTM D975.

As of June last year the ASTM International D02 Main Committee approved a change to ASTM D6751 that provides a standard for B6 thru B20.

You will have to give the EMA (Engine Manufacturers Association) a little time to evaluate it and ensure their engines wont have problems with it.

By the way the OEM is only responding to EMA recommendations with their B5 limits. That limit was there because there was no standard for BD other than that for blending stock.
Actually, its a direct response to problems Bosch and other manufacturers have been facing. They have been finding polymerized oil to be the failure mechanism, specifically in IP's w/extended biodiesel use. The problem is directly related to the usable shelf life of biodiesel - polymerization is the natural degradation of VO. The industry is still experimenting with antioxidants and chelating agents capable of extending the life (and ASTM standard compatibility) to more practical times. It is the 'stability' aspect of the fuel that fails to meet the standard by the time it reaches the pump. I can tell you the large american oil supplier I've been working for tries to keep the B99 stock they blend B5 with to a minimum - they've already learned alot the hard way. If you remember even 15-20 yrs ago, gasoline left in your lawnmower or dirtbike over the off-season was enough to cause havoc. They have gotten the stability of gasoline and diesel MUCH better. Its just gonna take'em awhile to get it dailed in for bio-d.
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:00 PM
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There are several relatively easy techniques to reduce the polymerization of BB.

1 Store it in a tank lined with non metallic material.

2 Store it under a head of nitrogen

3 Do not heat any more than necessary after processing.

4 Eliminate potential bonding sites by hydrogenating or use saturated oils as input.

These steps will not totally eliminate polymerization but will significantly reduce it.
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phydeaux88 View Post
There are several relatively easy techniques to reduce the polymerization of BB.

1 Store it in a tank lined with non metallic material.

2 Store it under a head of nitrogen

3 Do not heat any more than necessary after processing.

4 Eliminate potential bonding sites by hydrogenating or use saturated oils as input.

These steps will not totally eliminate polymerization but will significantly reduce it.
I agree. Oxidants, such as copper and carbon steel enhance polymerization. So does exposure to heat, oxygen, UV light and several other factors. What this does not address is biodiesel/VO that finds itself trapped inside IP's and other engine components. This is what reports from Bosch and other manufacturers/vendors that recommend no more than B5 are referring to. It is important to note we are not preventing polymerization w/these efforts - just slowing it down. I have had issues running B100 in my diesel tank while primarily burning SVO from other tanks. The problem I've had is related to the B100 that finds itself cooking in the factory filter bowl while I drive 1000's of miles on road trips while burning VO. The fuel in factory diesel filter just sits there (diesel pump is turned off) while I'm running on VO. My diesel tank became 'contaminated' with this polymerized biodiesel material when I switched back to diesel and the unused fuel in bowl began returning to diesel tank. Until I get an adequate fuel stabilizer for my biodiesel - I will not be using it in my SVO-converted PSD's... My diesel system is 100% stock with the addition of 'real' checkvalves that prevent VO from contaminating diesel system and the ability to turn off the diesel fuel pump.
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Old 01-27-2009, 05:18 PM
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What you describe sounds like problem that is specific to trucks that burn primarily SVO and switch to BD for startup/shutdown.

If you run BD only you should not experience such difficulty, as proven by the many folks that have been running strictly B100 for years.
The problem of keeping a small amount of BD in a very hot, polymerization inducing environment, for an extended period of time would not exist. The fact that your problem is limited to the BD side of your fuel system supports that conclusion because VO is every bit as likely, possibly even more so, to polymerize as BD.

In you position I think the decision to run straight #2 in the non VO circuit is correct.
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