I looked at the ford website and found nothing on the 3.0 in the vehicles anymore so my idea about the 3.0 ford already thought of.The 3.0 is a good motor.
The 3.0 is a good little motor - especially the DOHC'er - but if you can get almost the same performance out of a four cylinder without loosing the perks, why not drop it?
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People work from sun to sun but a gearhead's work is never done. -An old mechanic's adage
Hey Fountain1 - OK Truce- I have no problem with your lifestyle, nor anyone else's- it is what it is by choice- and as long as you aren't hurting anyone I whole heartedly support your quest for your American dream.
The following is to clarify my point- not to rile, flame or insult you.
My point in the first response was the same as it is now -
The $$$ you originally were quoting seemed to not add up.
I agree premium truck MSRP prices are exorbitant, but there are deals to be had- Ex: I paid 32,400 for the KR(msrp WAS 44K). However I believe a functional base model truck is reasonably priced.
I apologize for sounding self-righteous. I do not consider myself superior to any person on this planet- in each of us all things are possible- from the greatest good to the most despicable act. I have light years to go in my quest to be a better human being. I am extremely humbled by the caregivers I work with- many whose shifts every week are 12hrs/day 6 days a week(and no OT for those hours, except on holidays) and some even ask for more hours. As far as "privileged" anyone, myself included, that wakes up in the morning and has enough to eat and is able to make choices as to how their life will proceed is privileged- regardless of how they arrived at that position. You are entitled to your opinion and believe it or not I respect your opinion. Naturally, I would expect the same courtesy. Your numbers seemed inflated and that's what I was pointing out. Flaming you was not even, and still isn't, on my radar. What I did take exception to is your reference to me as a "Jerk off".
It seems we've have really gotten off on the wrong foot. Perhaps we can agree to disagree without the venom.
Back to the thread topic - MFG quality is critical- That KR went into the shop for warranty repair 15+ times in 21 months. I replaced it 6 months ago w/ a Lincoln MKX- guess what it's in the shop for the 3rd time- has 13,500 on the odometer. If the wife wants the MKX she can have it next year(she's on the fence- her Mazda Tribute has not had a single issue in 5 years and 115K) when I see what the F100 has. Although, after having the heated & cooled seats in the MKX I'm not sure I'll want a truck without those features- They are sweet creature comforts when I'm skiing(avg about 30 days a year) and it's 10 degrees outside or running across the interior valley and it's 110 outside. As for customer service, I've been treated fairly but in reading other posts it's obvious that there needs to be consistency across the board.
As for customer service, I've been treated fairly but in reading other posts it's obvious that there needs to be consistency across the board.
Tim[/quote]
That is correct Tim. In my experience with my '04 Expy, the selling dealer failed / refused/ neglected to address my warranty concerns. The dealer that did fix my problem did so with an adgenda. He intended to make the other dealer look like a fool, to make himself look like a good guy in the eyes of FMC and to earn my business. I feel that he accomplished his goal.
The question remains. Did his adgenda force him to provide me superior service or is his service as lackidaisical as the other dealer? Either way, I'm going back.
Tim
__________________ SCPO United States Coast Guard Retired '04 Expedition XLT 4x2 '99 Taurus Wagon SE 24V '88 F-150 4x4 XLT Lariat 5.8L 5Spd
Rights of Passage: CPO Initiation, Submarine Qualified (SS), Golden Shellback, Blue Nose, Order of the Ditch
Back to original question-what does Ford need to do to get it's mojo back?
Really not a whole heck of a lot. It has reached Toyota and Honda quality standards. Now Ford simply needs to be as effective advertising this fact. Think about it- Toyota has had their quality problems over the years but has been so effective at positive advertising that when a company like Ford approaches or outdoes them, we automatically are suspect of the facts or Ford (even us Ford diehards sometimes).
Next Ford needs to get some of it's international products to the domestic market to meet current market conditions (World Ranger immediately comes to mind). Ford is doing well in the rest of the World, it was simply cranking out the big stuff that the North American marketplace demanded before the current Energy Crisis. Recently the North American market changed overnight but Ford has always been producing efficient and fun vehicles for customers throughout the world who would be happy to pay as little as we do for fuel. Maybe the Feds need temporary easing of regulations to allow domestic manufacturers to bring non-domestic product lines to the North American market.
Oh yes, and Ford does have to make money. Those 9K import econo-boxes aren't making their makers any money, just keeping production lines from going idle. I'd rather pay a little more for a Ford, if that will help insure that they will still be here a hundred years from now.
The big difference when it comes to Toyota quality problems, compared to Ford quality problems, is it seems like most of the time it is a fight to get your problem solved with Ford.
Toyota seems to solve the problem very quickly, keeping their customers happier.
Ive said it before, Ford cant be the top dog in EVERY category, it just doesnt work like that. The other car companies have great R&D also!
If they keep doing what they are doing with their trucks (for the most part) and keep continuing to be healthy competition in other categories, they will keep their "mojo"
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$Sheldon$
2003 F-250 supercab shortbox 4x4 lariat
~Everythings legal man as long as ya dont get caught~
Back to original question-what does Ford need to do to get it's mojo back?
Really not a whole heck of a lot. It has reached Toyota and Honda quality standards. Now Ford simply needs to be as effective advertising this fact. Think about it- Toyota has had their quality problems over the years but has been so effective at positive advertising that when a company like Ford approaches or outdoes them, we automatically are suspect of the facts or Ford (even us Ford diehards sometimes).
Next Ford needs to get some of it's international products to the domestic market to meet current market conditions (World Ranger immediately comes to mind). Ford is doing well in the rest of the World, it was simply cranking out the big stuff that the North American marketplace demanded before the current Energy Crisis. Recently the North American market changed overnight but Ford has always been producing efficient and fun vehicles for customers throughout the world who would be happy to pay as little as we do for fuel. Maybe the Feds need temporary easing of regulations to allow domestic manufacturers to bring non-domestic product lines to the North American market.
Oh yes, and Ford does have to make money. Those 9K import econo-boxes aren't making their makers any money, just keeping production lines from going idle. I'd rather pay a little more for a Ford, if that will help insure that they will still be here a hundred years from now.
Im with you on virtually all you've said, but the fact that they have reached Honda and Toyota quality standards on a couple of their vehicles for a couple of years does NOT equal the 20+ year history of quality that the imports have as a part of their reputation. There are still people driving Windstar vans and Explorers that are a QC nightmare, and many people have sworn off "ever buying a Ford/GM/Chrysler again" either because of these QC problems or because of the customer service that they have received in trying to resolve a problem that they have had.
So part of it is still an uphill battle, but I'm rooting for Ford for sure. But those folks that have sworn off Ford will be hard to convince that things are fixed and that they can be confident in buying a Ford again.
And another reality is resale prices. Look at the price for 2 or 5 year old Hondas and Toyotas and compare them to just about any of the domestic vehicles. It's going to take a long-term QC assurance to lift Ford's resale prices across the board and over the years.
OK, I'll bite. What price range should the high quality entry level car start at? 12K, 15K, 18K? Not trying to start an argument here but in order to build a cheap entry level car, certain concessions must be made. Good customer service doesn't have to be one of them. I've been looking for a base Focus S for some time. I've yet to find one on a lot. Ford's MSRP is nearly 15K for a base Focus. That's too much. That's nearly $300.00 per month. I didn't check a payment calculator so don't flame me if my numbers are a little off.
The point is, I believe someone would generously give me an X-plan PIN when the time comes to buy. Not everyone will be that lucky. I consider the Focus to be a excellent quality entry level car if your entering Ford's network.
As much as I loath Toyota, I give credit where it's due. They figured it all out. They have the Yaris at around 12K. Great starter car, a little small but high quality. Then you have a great variety of SUV's, pick-up's and sedans.
That's all I'm asking Ford to do. I don't want anything but a Ford, I've made that clear.
Tim
I brought my wife a 2001 Focus SSE Brand New. Great car plagued by a electrical problem and backed by a (local) dealer who appeared not to care.
I traded the car at 40,000 due to on-going problems.
My wife and I miss that car quite a bit, however the electrical problems make me think twice.
BTW: My secretary had a 2003 Focus with 101,000. Quite honestly, it's arattling but reliable kiddie mover. Rattles like crazy and that why her and her husband are looking to purchase a used Accord instead of a used Tarsus(another excellent car).
If Ford continues to build throwaway entry level vehicles, then none of it's customers will want to move-up.
Price? about $9-$17K Either build it correctly or just forfeit this market segment.
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Ranger 2003 XLT 3.0 V6 auto Pure stock 24,000 miles
Fords offering off today are much better then even a few years ago. Far from throw away vehicles. A good example is these Fusions. A great vehicle that is a leader by far in its class. Id stick with ford for a new car. For one it helps the economy off the United States an helps your local dealers. I think the domestics deserve our business. The foreighn cars get way to much credit for being perfect they are not. Fords current offerings exceed what the foreighn out fits offer. Maybe it would be better just turn out the lights an let Toyota an Honda have all the business. I guesss if there so great we dont need the domestics at all. An it could very well happen in the near future.
Fords offering off today are much better then even a few years ago. Far from throw away vehicles. A good example is these Fusions. A great vehicle that is a leader by far in its class. Id stick with ford for a new car. For one it helps the economy off the United States an helps your local dealers. I think the domestics deserve our business. The foreighn cars get way to much credit for being perfect they are not. Fords current offerings exceed what the foreighn out fits offer. Maybe it would be better just turn out the lights an let Toyota an Honda have all the business. I guesss if there so great we dont need the domestics at all. An it could very well happen in the near future.
One sad fact here is that the Fusion is Mexican, not American.
I actually get a bit confused about foreign vs domestic sometimes; I'm in the Detroit area, and the Mazda6 (which shares a platform with the Fusion) is built in Flat Rock, Michigan, about 45 miles from me. I wonder whether buying a Mazda6 or a Fusion would better serve my neighbors...
Being a car guy who people go to for advice, I have recommended Fusions to numerous people and at least three of them have bought one, in part because I gave them a big thumbs up.
And as I said earlier, a quality reputation takes years or even decades to establish, as is the case with Honda and Toyota.
Fords offering off today are much better then even a few years ago. Far from throw away vehicles. A good example is these Fusions. A great vehicle that is a leader by far in its class. Id stick with ford for a new car. For one it helps the economy off the United States an helps your local dealers. I think the domestics deserve our business. The foreighn cars get way to much credit for being perfect they are not. Fords current offerings exceed what the foreighn out fits offer. Maybe it would be better just turn out the lights an let Toyota an Honda have all the business. I guesss if there so great we dont need the domestics at all. An it could very well happen in the near future.
Fords offerings of just lately have been much better off, in the car aspect. So some people that got screwed over with buying a car from ford that wasnt top notch in the previous years, should just trust ford and give ford their hard earned dollars? Please, that doesnt make sense!
The "foreign" cars (most of which are made in america now anyways) arent perfect, its the way the company deals with people that keeps people coming back. Just ask a few 6 liter diesel guys that got screwed by ford, and see if they are gonna buy another ford product (not just truck either) again.
Now you also said fords current offerings exceed "foreign" offerings, but just recently ford has said that their quality is now on par with toyota and honda. What do you know, that ford(and many other consumer reports) doesnt even know?!
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$Sheldon$
2003 F-250 supercab shortbox 4x4 lariat
~Everythings legal man as long as ya dont get caught~
I am retired from the Coast Guard. During tours of duty at my last four units, I became a certified command financial specialist. This doesn't involve investments and such but simply advising people on how to be responsible with thier money and offering advise on major purchases such as autos, appliances, etc.
During my career I had a one year break in service. During that time 1989-1990 I sold new and used Fords. I never loved a job so much in my life as that one.
Fast forward to present. I have become the "go to" guy at work for car buying advise, purchasing strategies and negotiation techniques. I'm not a GURU but over the years I've assisted about 50 people in thier car buying efforts.
I have always pointed people in Ford's direction as I've had a good raport with sales and service people. Many have bought Fords, most have been happy and some not so happy.
Many people have resisted my urges to go with Ford due to past quality and or customer service issues. Most of these folks migrate right back to Honda and Toy. Bottom line is, it's interesting to listen to people's experiences about vehicles. It's amazing how many people don't know the first damned thing about a car, how to buy it or how to maintain it. But they never forget the bad things.
Tim
__________________ SCPO United States Coast Guard Retired '04 Expedition XLT 4x2 '99 Taurus Wagon SE 24V '88 F-150 4x4 XLT Lariat 5.8L 5Spd
Rights of Passage: CPO Initiation, Submarine Qualified (SS), Golden Shellback, Blue Nose, Order of the Ditch
I'm looking for more "Constructive" and less "Destructive" here.
My personal feeling is Bill Ford should come out and offer contrition to past Ford customers that real or imaged have been treated poorly by anyone representing the Ford Motor Company.
I think Bill should admit that Ford has dropped the ball in the past and apologize for that misstep then I think he should do a state of the union address to all parties responsible for making, selling and fixing Ford product.
I think in that speech he should make it clear and lead by example that second best is not good enough for Ford or it's customers.
Then I believe he should make it perfectly clear to all parties that Ford and Ford reps will do it right or they will be fired, whether they are a dealer or a customer service rep an assembler or a foreman.
Ford cannot fix the problem if they are not willing and able to admit there is one.
Come on Ford build the best and be the best.
It wouldn't hurt GM and Chryco to do the same but my guess is they are already too far down the tubes.
Rick.
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"I'm not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I've seen what it can do to skyscrapers." - William Gascoyne
I honestly didnt mean that with any disrespect to anyone! I just really agree with you. and think that was a damn good post!
I read alot of posts on this site from blindly loyal people that claim they are bigger ford fans then the next guy, just because they choose to ignore Fords problems (and they do have problems, and they do, and have made some crappy product whether a guy wants to admit it or not!(as has every other automobile company))
Part of having Ford as my favorite vehicle company, is being able to call them on when they do something boneheaded, or build a crappy product. I want to see them succeed and I think for a company to be able to succeed, you must concentrate more on the bad things then the good things. Brushing a problem under the rug doesnt help solve any problems!
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$Sheldon$
2003 F-250 supercab shortbox 4x4 lariat
~Everythings legal man as long as ya dont get caught~
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