I will defend ford customer service, I've been shopping the same dealership for 20 years because of the good customer service. I'll say again, shop your dealerships like you do your vehicles. There are some good ones out there, as well as bad ones. The small town dealerships seem to be the best as they survive on repeat buisness. Kia is no bargin, my son bought a new kia sophia acouple of years a go. The car was very cheap in materials, fit and finish, made noise, it felt and drove like a cheap car, no wonder they have a 100,000 mile warrenry on them. Now even kia's are starting to climb in price. My pappy allways said, you get what you pay for. Cheap cars through history haven't done so well, like the yugo, Lecar and the renuat allaiance to name a few.
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2009 FORD RANGER fx4 off/road, 5-speed manual, torson diff and rancho's!
I will defend ford customer service, I've been shopping the same dealership for 20 years because of the good customer service. I'll say again, shop your dealerships like you do your vehicles. There are some good ones out there, as well as bad ones. The small town dealerships seem to be the best as they survive on repeat buisness. Kia is no bargin, my son bought a new kia sophia acouple of years a go. The car was very cheap in materials, fit and finish, made noise, it felt and drove like a cheap car, no wonder they have a 100,000 mile warrenry on them. Now even kia's are starting to climb in price. My pappy allways said, you get what you pay for. Cheap cars through history haven't done so well, like the yugo, Lecar and the renuat allaiance to name a few.
As much as I go to the mat for Ford, I still realize that they aren't perfect.
I found a big city dealer with a small town way about them. They took care of my warranty needs when my selling dealer of 22 years failed. He has EARNED my business. I'm not letting Ford or any dealer off the hook for any warranty issue or for a lack of top notch customer service.
I'm not a beligerant jerk that goes into a dealer's repair facility with a chip on my shoulder. I'm very calm and reasonable even when I'm paying the tab. Things break and parts fail. My daughter's '90 Honda is a testimant to that. Thank God that POS is now gone.
Why is it such a surprise that a cheap car looks and feels like a cheap car? If I had the money to make three car payments then a cheap car wouldn't even make it to my radar screen. My youngest is looking at college in a couple of years and a cheap car with a great warranty will get us over the hump. If I had the money, I'd put her in a bulletproof 20k Fusion and surround her with airbag protection. However, I'm an average middle class man doing the best I can. Sellfishly speaking, I could put her in a 20k car but my wife and I still want things for ourselves too, while we're young enough to enjoy them.
I very well remember the days of the Festiva and the Aspire. They were ahead of their time as gas was cheap and people still were buying larger cars. Then Ford decided those cars should be available with all the bells and whistles on them. Stupid, stupid, stupid. The car should be marketed for what it is. A cheap entry level car that will attract people in the lower wage groups, students, etc. You drive the piss out of it and throw it away. If Ford has done thier job in that period, they have developed some brand loyalty in a person that may have otherwise gone to a Kia or Hyundia. To expect more from a cheap car is ludicrous.
Tim
__________________ SCPO United States Coast Guard Retired '04 Expedition XLT 4x2 '99 Taurus Wagon SE 24V '88 F-150 4x4 XLT Lariat 5.8L 5Spd
Rights of Passage: CPO Initiation, Submarine Qualified (SS), Golden Shellback, Blue Nose, Order of the Ditch
Ford needs a solid high quality entry-level vehicle. Enough of building 10k POS's that lasts 5 years then is discarded into the junkyard.
The entry level vehicle needs to be high enough quailty to encourge the owner to move up a bigger higher price point vehicle.
Seriously building a cheap POS vs losing a potential life long customer?
OK, I'll bite. What price range should the high quality entry level car start at? 12K, 15K, 18K? Not trying to start an argument here but in order to build a cheap entry level car, certain concessions must be made. Good customer service doesn't have to be one of them. I've been looking for a base Focus S for some time. I've yet to find one on a lot. Ford's MSRP is nearly 15K for a base Focus. That's too much. That's nearly $300.00 per month. I didn't check a payment calculator so don't flame me if my numbers are a little off.
The point is, I believe someone would generously give me an X-plan PIN when the time comes to buy. Not everyone will be that lucky. I consider the Focus to be a excellent quality entry level car if your entering Ford's network.
As much as I loath Toyota, I give credit where it's due. They figured it all out. They have the Yaris at around 12K. Great starter car, a little small but high quaility. Then you have a great variety of SUV's, pick-up's and sedans.
That's all I'm asking Ford to do. I don't want anything but a Ford, I've made that clear.
Tim
__________________ SCPO United States Coast Guard Retired '04 Expedition XLT 4x2 '99 Taurus Wagon SE 24V '88 F-150 4x4 XLT Lariat 5.8L 5Spd
Rights of Passage: CPO Initiation, Submarine Qualified (SS), Golden Shellback, Blue Nose, Order of the Ditch
IMO I believe Ford should do a few things to improve the truck and increase sales. First would be to have a design engineer take a tool box and put in the back by going over the side a few thousand times to appreciate the effort it takes when working from the back of truck. Make the truck user freindly - first and foremost a work truck. The second would be to either make the extended cab standard or reduce the excess cost to have this feature ($2000 a foot is absurd). The last would be to make the manual everything as the standard base with the price to reflect this - it takes getting caught in a steam crossing losing electrical power to make you REALLY appreciate manual windows and door locks. Yes I have a 94' 4X4 5spd with manual roll up windows and locks which I paid $19000 out the door from a dealer showroom not special order - I did have to check about 20 dealers to find it. Dealer service for me has not been a big deal as not to much has gone wrong with the truck - I have replaced the AC (really needed in CA - 105 in the summer) and the clutch. 170,000 miles and going strong. But a new truck would be nice........
I know Nissan just introduced a stripper version of a Versa for $9995. I seem to recall the Versa as not doing that well in terms of reliability.
Ford bought the Festiva and Expire from Kia, so I'm guessing their profit margins were low.
Now we all would like a cheap new car to be available, but Ford needs to make money. Their F150 sales have gone down from almost a million a year to what, half a million? They were making $5-10k per unit on these trucks.
So to make up for these profits with a $10k car, they'd have to sell, oh, maybe 10 million of them. AND warranty them, etc. Wake up, guys, this is NOT gonna help Ford. This is a "lose money on every unit but make it up in volume" proposition. Next I suppose you want the good restaurants in town to serve up 5-course gourmet meals for $3....
I think the best we can expect is for them to bring in the new Fiesta (Verve or something like that?) at $14-15k.
I would sooner put a student in a $10,000 2007 Taurus with a few miles on it--extend the warranty and it's as good as a new car. It is a very safe car and in fact, I recommended a used Taurus to a friend back in 2002. She bought a 2000 Taurus, drove it for years, loved it, and took a hard hit in the side this year (with 137k on the car and no plans to replace it) with her sister in law sitting on the right side where the van hit them. Both of them were fine. Plus you can get insurance on a Taurus really cheap--probably half the price of a minicompact car for a young driver. Talk to your insurance agent about the price of insurance on a Taurus versus a Focus, a Yaris, a Versa, whatever.
A cheap car will NOT solve Ford's cash problems. They gotta make money.
Ive bought ford trucks a lot off years. For one reason there reliable an dependable and not once have let me stranded anywhere. Tends to make me a bit loyal to the blue oval. Ford has really come out with quality well built vehicles. This new 2009 150 is outstanding an the competition is in the dust with this truck by far. I drove on for a day an what can i say theres nothing quite like it.Fords new Fusion is getting rave reviews from everybody. Edge what a great vehicle that is. Hats off to ford there building vehicles that blow the Japanese away in quality an dependability. My latest truck that I bought a 2007 Ranger has been outstanding. No problems but I know it wouldnt be its a Ford you dont have problems. Ford is going to gain a lot off market share with all the problems GM an Chrysler are facing. Those companies still could go broke despite the bailouts. Ford is sitting pretty good an they know it.
George, I agree with your entire post. In fact I'm going to give my '99 Taurus wagon to my daughter, (she's not real happy about that) and I'm getting a new truck. But, how's this current line-up working for Ford now?
Look, they're bringing out the Raptor, for what? It's a toy. What are they going sell, maybe 5000-6000 units per year? High profit unit low sales volume still means low profit. Why aren't the dealers lots full of Harley trucks? I haven't seen one in 6 months.
My local dealer owns / sponsors a motorsports team. They have done several aftermarket mods on Mustang GT's and performed an off road conversion on a SD and an '08 F-150. All toys with a hefty price increase and all sitting.
Meanwhile the 20k Focus' are sitting and the high end Fusions are sitting. I drive through this dealer every Sunday and get out and look. They're slowly moving the F-150's, Expy's, Explorers, and most of the low and mid grade sedans. This is a high volume dealer located in a cluster of dealerships on the city's busiest blvd.
Tim
__________________ SCPO United States Coast Guard Retired '04 Expedition XLT 4x2 '99 Taurus Wagon SE 24V '88 F-150 4x4 XLT Lariat 5.8L 5Spd
Rights of Passage: CPO Initiation, Submarine Qualified (SS), Golden Shellback, Blue Nose, Order of the Ditch
My father bought a Sporttrack Explorer when the first hit the showrooms and love it.I drove it a few times and enjoyed it myself.Chevy came out with the Avalanche and those stupid change for a dollar comercials would irritate the hell out me.The gas prices shot up over $4.00 a gallon and he traded it on a PT Cruiser that got parked by the curb because it sat so low it would bottom out on the driveway.I got broken into a couple of times and windows for those cars aren't cheap.He began to hate the car and traded it in on a Fusion and loves the car.The best part is he can park it in the Fusion in the garage away from the thieves.
[quote=pilot10;6960821]Hey FOUNTAIN 1- Sorry - no offense meant- but obviously I touched on a sore subject. Did I ever say you were a bad driver? NO - I said most vehicles don't get totaled- perhaps I was a bit too sarcastic. But it is extremely annoying when people are adjusting data to support their OPINIONS. As far as your math goes it was and still appears inflated by you to make "your" point more valid. F350DRW XL on ford's web site right now- 26,005 @ 60 months is about 433.42. To me that is $166.58 per month less than your $600 per month-about 10k less than you claimed- or if you worked a 2080 hour work year- or about $5 per hour. 50k divided by 60 months is $833 per month. This is a free country - you have a choice on where and how you spend you're money. If you can't afford to drive a truck with more bling - a couple of suggestions: stick to a base model, or buy one of those "used" ones that have lost so much value or maybe work a little harder at improving your earning potential. Over the past 30 years many times I've had two jobs- I didn't go to college(stupid move on my part) I started working right out of high school at minimum wage jobs. Last year I returned to community college and will soon get certified as a medical assistant- not very glamorous nor very high paying. I'm currently work staffing caregivers for an elder care management company and have class 4 nights a week- this past semester ended a year of Saturday classes as well. And that is in addition to volunteering at the Second Harvest Food Bank and the animal rescue center at the local zoo. I choose to drive trucks w/ more features because it is what I WANT - not NEED- but WANT and no one in my family is not eating because of my choices.
If you're spending 50k on a truck to tow a really nice boat around I ASSUME your still shoveling hot food in your mouth when it's dinner time. If not maybe you should reconsider your priorities.
I've worked my butt off for the last 30 years to afford what I drive and I did a ton of research before spending my hard earned money- My KR was $32,400(MSRP 44k) w/ everything but the Nav and audiophile systems- my payments were $478 a month.
I apologize if I've offended anyone- especially those who are making real sacrifices to make ends meet. And to those who live a privileged life- still no offense meant but get real. It is your choice as to how much you spend on your toys. Like they say if you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch.
And believe it or not I am not intending to flame you- but it would be nice to have more accurate numbers in your rants.
Again as far as the MoJo working again- it will be a process that will require sacrifices, improved mfg efficiencies, improved mpgs, esthetically pleasing designs and quality customer service.
Tim dude WOW talk about rant ! medical assistant AFTER 30 YEARS, seems you help out alot, good for you . it seems youre a little upset at my lifestyles or should i say lack of youre lifstyles . where in the heck did anyone say they couldnt afford to eat . its nice that you gave us a life history on youreself . but still dont get you . flaming me . and then go in to a self rightous rant about youself . Tim i assure you my family isnt going without because of my truck , boat , snowmobiles , fith wheel , ect theese are al just extras above the house food , cable , . Youre trying hard to get where youre going . I am happy you are making good with yourelife , helping elderly is a great and self fulling thing that many of us need to look at . Hope that medical ass. thing goes well for you. 20 to 40 k a year a .good job , i think after you buy youre house , truck , food ect , youll be the one on the porch , Not running with the so called big dogs ! leave me alone and ill leave you alone . and by the way not all the privliged ones had it given to them ! many work theire butts off going without to get were they are . other took the party mentallity and were happy with low paying nowhere going jobs . its called the american dream . i for one have worked for everting i own thus giving me the right to think something is overpriced . not because i cant afford it . but because ive had the money and knowledge of the losses one takes on things due to depriciation , ect . i continue to believe cars and trucks are over inflated as wer the housing that were all dealing with right now . whats the resale on that kr 150 you paid 44k plus interest now . what did rent that truck for . and why is worth so much less than it was sitting on the showroom floor . hell it lost 7000 as soon as you drove it off the lot . can i say overpriced yea i can .
Yeah, the aspire and festiva were hienz 57. The bodied were made by kia, the drivetrain mazda and labled by ford. They disapeared for a while, but in the last year I've been seeing some back on the roads again. I'm not sure about the aspire, but the festiva was a 40 mpg + car.
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2009 FORD RANGER fx4 off/road, 5-speed manual, torson diff and rancho's!
I think Ford should spend less time and money trying to make us lazy with heated seats and other fancy gizmos.I in favor of the bluetooth radios they use now because its voice activated and helps keeping your hands on the wheel instead of the radio.If Ford is so woried about mods being done,then they should offer more performance upgrades for all their vehicles instead of just ford racing parts.If they do this,people will get to keep their warrenties because they are using genuine Ford MotorCraft parts.There is no exuse for a high repair over something minor and stupid.I know the feds have been crackin down on emmissions and mpg but that should not require a $800.00 repair for a emmission device.Most states have emmission testing and if your vehicle fails because you moded it and didnt do it properly,that foul on you part.I think ford should also equip every vehicle with full size spare tire instead of a donut and go back to manual shift transfer cases for the 4x4.Ford should drop the 3.0L V6.I know some might not agree but if you go to the ford website you will find that the 3.0L and the 2.3 4cyl are pretty much rated with each other minus little torque and power on the 2.3.Ford has been using the 2.3 for a long time and it a exelent motor.Ford should beef up the 2.3 and use it in place of the 3.0 because I believe it will free up under the hood space require less maintainance.
I looked at the ford website and found nothing on the 3.0 in the vehicles anymore so my idea about the 3.0 ford already thought of.The 3.0 is a good motor.
fords biggest problem is CUSTOMER SERVICE! im not a ford basher, i am die hard and own nothing else! my dad drove fords all his life, and his dad did too.
ME:
anyway, the last few years or so theyve been going downhill in that dept. my 03 CENTENNIAL EDITION TAURUS (very proud to buy a anniversery model new when i was 22) had the transmission go out at 38k miles. I have had it in under warrenty TWICE for the little transaxle light flashing, and they replaced the valve body, and a sensor or something.
well guess what! the dealer wont help me cause i was at 38 months, and 38k miles!!! call ford corporate headquarters, went through all the hoops and they all said that they wouldnt help me! EVEN THOUGH THE CAR HAD BEEN IN TWICE UNDER WARRANTY FOR TRANNY RELATED ISSUES! luckily my dad had a buddy that rebuilt it for me for 1500.00 car still only has 64k miles on it, but i know im out on my own for sure now!
MY DAD:
in 05 my dad bought a 615hp 514 stroker from ford racing for his 31 model A drag car. (you know the old cars most guys put 350's in) anyway, long story short.....followed all instructions with the engine, got it running, took to track, and spun a bearing on 2nd or 3rd pass.......pulled the oil pan, and there was a nut that went absolutely NOWHERE! had 2 reputable machine shops tell him it was factory defect, and guess what???? hes out 7900.00 cause ford stated that he didnt run the correct oil pan!????? HE RAN THE PAN THAT IT CAME WITH, AND THERE WERE NO INSTRUCTIONS ANYWHERE ON THE MOTOR THAT SAID NOT TO RUN IT! but ford said it says not to run that pan in there instruction manual with that motor THAT HE NEVER GOT
anyway, he had to hire a lawyer, fight ford, and 2yrs later settled for 2500 bucks........
I LOVE FORD PRODUCTS, ALWAYS HAVE, BUT I WOULDNT PISS ON THERE CUSTOMER SERVICE IF IT WAS ON FIRE!
Ive owned enough escorts in my life to know the quality they are, and I know they were built for a cheap econo car, and thats just what they were.
Theres gonna always be a few guys that have good luck with a vehicle, when a a bunch of different people have poor luck with it. Im glad you had good luck with yours, and Im glad you like it, that doesnt make it a high quality vehicle.
You're definitely right about different people having better luck than others with vehicles. I just know too many people having better luck with escorts than any other similar vehicle. Parts support is great, most repairs are fairly simple, and yes, they're cheap econo-cars. They're affordable and offer great mileage, and they're built here. To me, there's not much to hate
Right now with the Arabs cutting production and raising gas prices again, Ford should jump back on the bandwagon and make more econo-boxes so we can stick-it to the middle-east and make 'em swim in that crap
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People work from sun to sun but a gearhead's work is never done. -An old mechanic's adage
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