I don't think he was flamin' ya, just trying to make a point. When I financed my '04 Expy, my lien holder provided GAP insurance at NO COST.

Great thread! Many good points to be considered. In most cases people buy what's on the lot becuase it's there. It doesn't mean that Ford is providing exactly what we want. For instance, I'll buy from dealer stock rather than order if I can get a steeper discount.

Product wise, I think Ford is close to the right track. I think they need to expedite a larger variety of fuel sippers. We need a vehicle that competes directly against the Jeep Wrangler. The Ranger needs a serious make over.
Customer service / SUPPORT needs an overhaul. Ford should step back and re-evaluate the warranty program. I think it's outdated and not long enough to justify the hefty prices we are expected to pay for the product.

On a personal note, I've lost all confidence in the Powerstroke engines from all vintages. I want a Diesel SD something wicked but I'm afraid to pour out that much cash and risk a major post warranty failure. IMO, that takes all the joy out of ownership.

I love Ford products and have been an exclusive Ford loyalist for 26 years. I go to the mat for Ford everyday on this site when someone gets in a "ford bashing" mood. I have no problem with reading your tale of woe if it's written in such a way that we are all informed and are not insulted by it . Ford makes it's mistakes and will continue to do so. I seriously doubt that any of Ford's decision makers scour this site, but, if I'm wrong, just one bile ridden post will terminate that motivation.

Tim

 

Good post, Mike....I especially agree about the names. And reusing the Taurus name on the 500 was questionable as well, because the old Taurus was dirt cheap on the used market, so that name was pretty tarnished. Likewise, reusing the Ranger nameplate on a new smaller truck that will hopefully be a bit more "upmarket" may not work *that* well. But then I'm old enough to have bought a brand new 1978 F100 stepside (has 30 years gone by that quick?) For instance, would a new car named Escort make people want it really bad? (We got my wife a new 1986 Escort GT as well, again a *few* years ago.) In Europe, the Escort name is imbedded in the culture, though.

I'm not sure why a lot of folks think killing Mercury would be a money saver or money maker. Seems like it really doesn't cost *that* much more to change the grille and some nameplates on an Escape or Fusion and sell it at a different store. Ford is not shelling out bucks to keep the L/M dealers open, is it? The poor sales of Mercurys will certainly cause some of those dealers to die off. But there are people I know who would not drive a plain old "Ford" but are happier with a Mercury (including my late father in law, and a couple other people I know).

But the biggest problem with focusing on cars is how they are gonna make money? In bad times Ford will definitely sell more Focuses and Fusions, but the amount of money they make on each sale is absolutely tiny compared to the big sport utes or loaded F150 blingmoblies. If they could sell Focuses and Fusions for close to sticker, AND increase market share, they've got some hope...but nobody is gonna pay close to sticker for the outdated Focus. (Sticker on the one outside the Costco doors was right around $20k, whereas my brain says a Focus should be a $14-15k car.)

George

 

Thats part of the problem-they don't care about the guy or gal making $10-12 an hour, who really can't afford to buy one of those cars at that price, so they have to scour the used car market, and if they're not brand loyal, they'll buy what they can afford..They really need to look at the first time buyer, to get them to be a customer for life-with GOOD customer service, good warranties, along with great quality. Whatever happened to "Quality is job 1" ???? Its true ,like you said, to get anything done today, you gotta pitch a fit to get them to listen to you. "Customer service" is a lost art today in any field.. I try harder to make my customers happy(I a local truck driver), and I tell them I'll do whatever it takes to get your freight on, or off my truck, as a lot of drivers say "that's not my job"..I tell them thats a bunch of BS, do your job!!! Ford does need to LISTEN to their customers, and then make a few BASE model cars, with no frills, and price them right, as to get the first time buyers in the door...

 

Everyone that works or seeks higher education needs a car. Currently KIA is the only car maker that comes to mind that meets the needs of the people in the lower income brackets. Excellent warranty and no frills economical car. It's a model that Ford could follow. I would buy my youngest daughter who will be driving in a year and a half a new car if it cost 10k. I may have to settle for a KIA as I'm not going to spend more than 10k. How many more driveways could Ford put a NEW car in if they built a cheap one?

Tim

 

Bad thing about a cheap car like a kia, is, well, its cheap!

Pretty hard to make a good quality reliable car, that is cheap. Part of fords bad rep with cars stems from the crappy escorts, and fiesta type cars.

I know personally, I would pay 10k for a used good quality car, then 10k on a cheap new poorer quality car!

 

Hey FOUNTAIN 1- Sorry - no offense meant- but obviously I touched on a sore subject. Did I ever say you were a bad driver? NO - I said most vehicles don't get totaled- perhaps I was a bit too sarcastic. But it is extremely annoying when people are adjusting data to support their OPINIONS. As far as your math goes it was and still appears inflated by you to make "your" point more valid. F350DRW XL on ford's web site right now- 26,005 @ 60 months is about 433.42. To me that is $166.58 per month less than your $600 per month-about 10k less than you claimed- or if you worked a 2080 hour work year- or about $5 per hour. 50k divided by 60 months is $833 per month. This is a free country - you have a choice on where and how you spend you're money. If you can't afford to drive a truck with more bling - a couple of suggestions: stick to a base model, or buy one of those "used" ones that have lost so much value or maybe work a little harder at improving your earning potential. Over the past 30 years many times I've had two jobs- I didn't go to college(stupid move on my part) I started working right out of high school at minimum wage jobs. Last year I returned to community college and will soon get certified as a medical assistant- not very glamorous nor very high paying. I'm currently work staffing caregivers for an elder care management company and have class 4 nights a week- this past semester ended a year of Saturday classes as well. And that is in addition to volunteering at the Second Harvest Food Bank and the animal rescue center at the local zoo. I choose to drive trucks w/ more features because it is what I WANT - not NEED- but WANT and no one in my family is not eating because of my choices.

If you're spending 50k on a truck to tow a really nice boat around I ASSUME your still shoveling hot food in your mouth when it's dinner time. If not maybe you should reconsider your priorities.

I've worked my butt off for the last 30 years to afford what I drive and I did a ton of research before spending my hard earned money- My KR was $32,400(MSRP 44k) w/ everything but the Nav and audiophile systems- my payments were $478 a month.

I apologize if I've offended anyone- especially those who are making real sacrifices to make ends meet. And to those who live a privileged life- still no offense meant but get real. It is your choice as to how much you spend on your toys. Like they say if you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch.

And believe it or not I am not intending to flame you- but it would be nice to have more accurate numbers in your rants.

Again as far as the MoJo working again- it will be a process that will require sacrifices, improved mfg efficiencies, improved mpgs, esthetically pleasing designs and quality customer service.

Tim

 

I agree with you, just making a point that Ford could offer a 10K car. No bling. Would it be a hot seller? I doubt it. . But, would it put a blue oval where many Asian cars sit? I believe so. The KIA and Hyundia twins come with a 100k power train warranty. They may be crap, but they stand behind thier crap.

In fact, my buddy has a high end 2003 Hyundia. He was traveling in South Carolina from Va on a Sunday in a very sparsly populated area and the alternator failed while he was driving the car. He called the road side assistance people and they immediately dispatched a tow truck, pulled his car to the nearest dealer 60 miles away and paid for his overnight stay in the hotel. The next day he was back underway swearing lifetime loyalty to Hyundia. The tow was free, the room was free and repair was free. Call it crap all you want but his customer service experience was awesome.

My wife on the other hand locked the keys in our '04 Expy. My loving bride forgot the key pad code and couldn't get in the truck. She was at a restaurant 5 miles from our dealer. She called road side assistance and waited 2 hours for a person to unlock the truck. She was given the run around and treated rudely by the person that came to assist.

Whatever the roadside assistance portion of the warranty costs, they can deduct as I will never bother them again.

We now subscribe to AAA and have always been treated like we were thier only customer.

Ford's customer service is my biggest complaint. I've said that numerous times on this site.

Tim

 

One problem with the $10k car is that you need labor at 50 cents per hour to build it. You gonna put your kids to work in *that* factory? Likewise, we are not going to be able to produce $10 running shoes in the US, or 19" computer monitors for $100.

Ford has already done the Korean car thing with the Festiva and the Expire, both of which were made by...tada...KIA.

As for the customer service experiences you describe, I think that they have far less to do with Ford and Hyundai than they do with the individual towing services that they contract with. Certainly, every automaker should strive to provide the best level of customer service they can on all levels, but linking Ford Motor Company with the one roadside assistance guy that was rude to your wife is more than a bit far fetched.

George

 

Please don't try and defend Fords customer service. It's prolly the second most popular complaint I read on the forums. This first being the E4OD transmission.

 

I am not globally defending Ford's customer service, but pointing out that the comparison of two incidents involving road service calls is not really valid unless the road service company is operated by the car company.

In fact, I have had excellent customer service from the Ford dealer who sold my my van in 2003. The service manager and other personnel, over the years, have provided me with service as good as I have had with any brand of car, and that includes my owning a BMW and an Acura with dealers that clearly provide "royalty level" customer service.

Customer service is provided at the dealer level, and the dealer is an independent operation; it is not Ford Motor Company. The bottom line is to research local dealers and choose one that is known for better service.

George

 

well the ford delership hear in lander wy will not order a truck with a standerd in it unless the customer seas so and all we have hear in lander is ranches and a lot of californa people and im tierd of looking at truks that have way to much junk on them that has no frigen perpus on a truck and i beleav ifn you cant drive a standerd you dont have the right to be driveing a pickup

 

First of all, I'm not a Ford basher. I'm a supporter. Please don't portray me as as unsatisfied whiner coming on here just to put down my beloved choice of automakers. If you read my posts, you'll see that I'm a loyalist. However, my dealership experience with Ford as of the past 4 years has sucked. I've had to change dealers after using the same dealer for 22 years because the service manager refused on multiple times and on multiple vehicles to support my ligitimate claim. Simple things like warping brake rotors within the new car warranty period on my '99 Taurus, both rear heat / ac actuator switches and gears on the '04 Expy and a few other minor things. Then the road assistance debacle happened and I decided to divorce this dealership, not FORD.

I have never come on here spouting off about how bad my experiences were with said dealer because FMC customer service held the dealer's feet to the fire on all occaisions. My statement isn't far fetched sir, I simply chose to accentuate on the positives and move beyond the issues of the past.

Instead of raising hell with FMC over the road side assistance issue, I simply contracted with AAA. My money, my choice and better service.

With that said, all Ford dealers represent the blue oval, do they not?

Sorry for the rant and no offense intended.

Tim

 

The best car I've ever owned is a 1995 Mercury Tracer, 1.9L SEFI 4-cylinder, 5-speed manual trans, and 38mpg. My parents bought it new in '95 for $9,000 and handed it down to me a few years ago when I started driving and I'm still driving it today with 265k miles on it. The motor runs like new with the exception of a little lifter-ticking, and the trans functions great. The only major repair that's ever been made on it was just last year when the clutch finally started slipping at 240k miles and I dropped the trans and put in a new clutch. My car has better fuel economy than almost all cars made today and it's 14 years old! So don't be bashing Escorts and Fiestas - they're good quality, affordable cars.

I think Ford would regain its mojo by doing it like they did back in th'day when you could order any vehicle almost any way you wanted it. Forget power windows ($300), expensive woodgrain interior trim, Sync ($400), alloy wheels (from $925), sunroofs, tinted windows, etc. We need stripped down, affordable vehicles that get the job done.

Ford would also do itself some good if it simplified and went back to basics. In 1998, the Ford Expidition alone could be built in 410,000 combinations of standard and optional equipment! Production cost a little high? Sticker price a little high?

 

I don't agree with this at all. For most of us, the dealer network is our only interaction with Ford. As far as I'm concerned the dealer is Ford. It is thier customer service extension.

Ford needs to police thier dealer network.

When I went to have my cruise control recall done, they acted like I was being unreasonable. When I told them I didn't bring the letter, it got worse. The best part was when they gave it back to me and then informed me that they didn't have the part so they just disconnected the cruise.

Mike

 

Ive owned enough escorts in my life to know the quality they are, and I know they were built for a cheap econo car, and thats just what they were.

Theres gonna always be a few guys that have good luck with a vehicle, when a a bunch of different people have poor luck with it. Im glad you had good luck with yours, and Im glad you like it, that doesnt make it a high quality vehicle.