Gelling issues

97nukeford · #1 (**permalink**) 12-23-2008, 03:23 PM

This is a question for mainly the guys in cold climates. Here around Omaha, all of the dealerships are saying that they have been having a rash of gell ups, it hasn't mattered if the owner has used additive or not. I had my '06 gel up on me yesterday. Just wondering if anyone else other than here in Nebraska has noticed this.

starmilt · #2 (**permalink**) 12-23-2008, 04:08 PM

There is a lot of posts on gelling this year but I went to alaska and didn't have any gelling issues at all even in the 110 gal tank in the bed using howes. This was burning #2 fuel until I reached northern BC where I couldnt get straight #2 anymore until I got to alaska I did use a little more than double dosage though.

a-rod · #3 (**permalink**) 12-23-2008, 07:06 PM

Use a bunch of Howes and you will be fine, I think powerservice sucks for anti-gelling, Heard of too many people who have gelled up using it.

starmilt · #4 (**permalink**) 12-23-2008, 07:47 PM

Unless power service has improved I learned years ago that a gallon of gas was twice as good as a gallon of power service and cost much less.

97nukeford · #5 (**permalink**) 12-23-2008, 11:32 PM

Unfortunately, the problem here won't be solved, even doubling up the additive. One of the Ford service techs here talked to a local BP rep, and he told him that the diesel they were getting was probably the worse they've ever had, as if it wasn't mixed right. and it was full of moisture. Grand.

hanklin · #6 (**permalink**) 12-24-2008, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starmilt

Unless power service has improved I learned years ago that a gallon of gas was twice as good as a gallon of power service and cost much less.

Are you saying you put gas in with diesel?

Hanklin

sandmanf250 · #7 (**permalink**) 12-24-2008, 05:47 AM

big rig drivers do it all the time.a little bit of gas will not hurt anything and it keeps you from gelling.

fonefiddy · #8 (**permalink**) 12-24-2008, 05:59 AM

I'm not saying it's Gospel , just one companies research.

Here's some Useful Info:
http://www.enertechlabs.com/ULSD_Col...n_09032007.htm
CFPP vs CP
http://www.enertechlabs.com/winter_p..._with_ulsd.htm

It seems that ULSD does have some new, interesting characteristics that LSD did not have.

"The new phenomenon of Wax Drop Out (WDO) where under periods of extended Cold Soak? (48-72+ hours) the wax in the fuel suddenly drops out of the fuel can happen at temperatures that can be above the CP (Cloud Point). This problem appears at this time to be independent of CP or CFPP(gel point)."

"There is a new cold weather problem that the industry has not adequately defined as of today. We are calling this issue Wax Dropout. Wax Dropout occurs when diesel fuel is cold saturated. This where the fuel reaches a given temperature and stays at or below that temperature for a given period of time. This time period is usually between 48 and 72 hours or longer and the temperature can vary with different batches of fuel. This past winter we saw this problem at between 5F and 10F.

When the fuel gets to the Wax Dropout temperature, say for example 8F and stays there for 48 to 72 hours, the wax will suddenly agglomerate and fall to the bottom of the container. This wax plugs filters and fuel lines until it is removed or until the fuel temperature is raised to a point where the fuel will reabsorb the wax.

Again there is a further complication, in that the old HSD and LSD wax would gradually start to reabsorb as the fuel temperature rose. With ULSD when wax dropout has occurred the wax does not begin to reabsorb until the fuel reaches fairly high temperatures, often above 40F, 50F or even higher. This can make the process of getting an engine with gelled fuel to run properly far more challenging than we have ever seen before."

Frankenbiker · #9 (**permalink**) 12-24-2008, 01:39 PM

Your links don't work, fonefiddy.

But backtracking to the company, I can read the articles. SOME info in them, but they're thinly veiled advertisements for their products. Bias, anyone?

-blaine

fonefiddy · #10 (**permalink**) 12-24-2008, 03:25 PM

Huh, I checke them before I posted them?

Well, I'm sure there's some truth to their research?

Have You seen all the posts about gelling this year? Many more than last year.

fonefiddy · #11 (**permalink**) 12-24-2008, 03:29 PM

Go down to the IDI section. Dave S. has them listed in the gell posts, down there

mnmwhit · #12 (**permalink**) 12-25-2008, 01:14 AM

If all that was true, Wouldn't I be really screwed?

I live in Alaska. My truck stays outside all winter. Temps get down to -50'F and stay for weeks on end. I have a 98 gal Transfer Flow tank. The ONLY additive I use is the Ford Motorcraft winter/anti-gell and in the summer I use the summer Cetane booster/Lubricity formula. In the summer I dump in 1 qt of 2 cycle oil in every tank.

I change my fuel filters every 10,000 miles and the truck always starts and runs great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonefiddy

I'm not saying it's Gospel , just one companies research.

Here's some Useful Info:
http://www.enertechlabs.com/ULSD_Col...n_09032007.htm
CFPP vs CP
http://www.enertechlabs.com/winter_p..._with_ulsd.htm

It seems that ULSD does have some new, interesting characteristics that LSD did not have.

"The new phenomenon of Wax Drop Out (WDO) where under periods of extended Cold Soak? (48-72+ hours) the wax in the fuel suddenly drops out of the fuel can happen at temperatures that can be above the CP (Cloud Point). This problem appears at this time to be independent of CP or CFPP(gel point)."

"There is a new cold weather problem that the industry has not adequately defined as of today. We are calling this issue Wax Dropout. Wax Dropout occurs when diesel fuel is cold saturated. This where the fuel reaches a given temperature and stays at or below that temperature for a given period of time. This time period is usually between 48 and 72 hours or longer and the temperature can vary with different batches of fuel. This past winter we saw this problem at between 5F and 10F.

When the fuel gets to the Wax Dropout temperature, say for example 8F and stays there for 48 to 72 hours, the wax will suddenly agglomerate and fall to the bottom of the container. This wax plugs filters and fuel lines until it is removed or until the fuel temperature is raised to a point where the fuel will reabsorb the wax.

Again there is a further complication, in that the old HSD and LSD wax would gradually start to reabsorb as the fuel temperature rose. With ULSD when wax dropout has occurred the wax does not begin to reabsorb until the fuel reaches fairly high temperatures, often above 40F, 50F or even higher. This can make the process of getting an engine with gelled fuel to run properly far more challenging than we have ever seen before."

97nukeford · #13 (**permalink**) 12-26-2008, 09:43 AM

Well, there is definitively something wrong with the fuel. There have been too many issues with gelling this year.

fonefiddy · #14 (**permalink**) 12-27-2008, 06:18 AM

Max, I'd almost bet You guys still get the good stuff? We still have LSD available here. It's cut with #1 during the winter to stave off gelling.

mistakenID · #15 (**permalink**) 12-27-2008, 07:33 AM

My wife works for a fairly large trucking co. (over 6,000 trucks) Drivers have had gelling issues not only in the colder area's but also in the 20 degree area's.

They fuel in major truck stops and the drivers are required to carry and add winter additives. At least 2 dozen trucks have gelled in the past 2-3 weeks where the drivers were sure there should have been no problems and had been running with additives for at least a month.

I'd say "something" is going on. I drove truck for 25 yrs and never had a gelling problem. Just took proper measures, even with temps at 85 below (with wind chill) did not gel. Well, the truck didn't gel but I think I did. Nasty driving in the dark, cold, wind, in insulated coveralls, coat, gloves and have to scrap the INSIDE of the windshield to see.