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Excursion - King of SUVs 2000 - 2005 Ford Excursion

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Old 12-15-2008, 10:46 AM
fordquist fordquist is offline
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steering wander & sway....still!!!

2003 X v-10 4x4 Limited. Hellwig rear anti-sway, Firestone bags, Rancho rsx all 4 corners, Bridgestone Dueller revo (5000 miles), New front anti-sway bar links(factory redesigned), 4:30 gears, Prodigy break control.

Pulling a 2008 Keystone VR-1 31ft bunkhouse. Have Equalizer 4point sway (adjusted twice by RV dealer for level and forward weight distribution) and have installed new radial tires to replace bias-ply from factory.

I have tried everything I have read and can think of. I need help! My ex wanders bad. I have had it aligned and done the steering box mod(tighten). Not sure if the wandering is causing the sway, or if wander and trailer sway are two seperate issues. It is very hard to control when towing any travel trailer. Have towed 20ft TT up to my 31ft TT. Just looking for some suggestions to cure the wander or the TT sway, or both.
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Old 12-15-2008, 11:20 AM
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are you getting it when running just the truck/no trailer?
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Old 12-15-2008, 11:26 AM
fordquist fordquist is offline
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Wanders with or without TT. Amount of wander is same either way.
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Old 12-15-2008, 11:37 AM
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Try maxing out the inflation pressure on your X's tires (They are load rating E, right?). My X and 30 Puma TT like it right at the max inflation....
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:56 PM
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They are E rated. I tried factory guidlines of I think 65 rear and 55 front, and dropping 10lbs. rear and 5lbs front. Couldnt tell a difference. I will continue to play with pressures come spring camping season. Thanks for input. I will try just about anything at this point.
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Old 12-15-2008, 01:04 PM
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When my 01 F-250 was wandering it turned out to be the u-joint on my front axle was going bad. Even with the hubs unlocked the axles would rotate and get "locked" in a slightly turned position and cause my truck to pull like a son of a gun. Just something to look into.
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Old 12-15-2008, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordquist View Post
They are E rated. I tried factory guidlines of I think 65 rear and 55 front, and dropping 10lbs. rear and 5lbs front. Couldnt tell a difference. I will continue to play with pressures come spring camping season. Thanks for input. I will try just about anything at this point.
Go with the max pressure stated on the side wall and work your way down until you are comfortable.

Also, you TT tires should be maxed as well.
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Old 12-15-2008, 04:46 PM
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This Fixed My X

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordquist View Post
2003 X v-10 4x4 Limited. Hellwig rear anti-sway, Firestone bags, Rancho rsx all 4 corners, Bridgestone Dueller revo (5000 miles), New front anti-sway bar links(factory redesigned), 4:30 gears, Prodigy break control.

Pulling a 2008 Keystone VR-1 31ft bunkhouse. Have Equalizer 4point sway (adjusted twice by RV dealer for level and forward weight distribution) and have installed new radial tires to replace bias-ply from factory.

I have tried everything I have read and can think of. I need help! My ex wanders bad. I have had it aligned and done the steering box mod(tighten). Not sure if the wandering is causing the sway, or if wander and trailer sway are two seperate issues. It is very hard to control when towing any travel trailer. Have towed 20ft TT up to my 31ft TT. Just looking for some suggestions to cure the wander or the TT sway, or both.


I had the issue from day one and now have 73,000 miles on the X. I fixed mine with the following.

First, I increased tire pressure from 50/55 to 65/70. That did nothing but make the wander quicker.

Second, I put Bilstien shocks on it. That improved the ride but it still wandered.

Third, I upgraded the 24MM OEM sway bar with a Super Duty 30MM sway bar. That helped but still not SAT.

Fourth, I did some significant adjusting on the steering box. Again, that helped but still not SAT.

Finally, I installed LANDYOT radius rods and did a minor steering box adjustment. No more wander.

The problem is the rear end moves from front to back (Spring Wrap) and requires constant steering correction. The radius rods eliminate the rear end from shifting front to back and, therefore, the steering can be adjusted properly.

Google "Landyot Radius Rads" and get an education.


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Old 12-15-2008, 08:58 PM
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DSMMH's post should cure your problem.
I would go with his solution.

The 03 Limited is not a "sway box" by design, but it seems as though many end up that way.

I have a 03 Limited 4x4 with a V-10 it has 154000 miles and looks and drives like a 20,000 truck. It has no sway even with the miles mentioned that is unusal. Also I might add no mods, NONE.

The swaying problem seems to always be in the rear section of the Excursion.

The Excursion is by design heavier in the front-end than the rear, and the down force is increased with speed on the front end. The Excursion by design surely has a greater up-force at the rear end at cruseing speed due to the air that is gathered underneath. Add a trailer with tougne weigh only blocks the air flow and causes a greater build underneith before the air is forced out.

It is my thinking that the rear leaf springs loose a lot of tension in these Excursions that seem to sway. This seems to happen most often when you let off the gas and then give it gas.

I really think a lot of this sway would vanish by simply putting wider wheels on the back, or wheels that were offset to make each wheel give the Excursion about a 2 inch wider track on each side wider than the factory wheels. This in its self would make the rear-end more prone to follow the front-end.

I have noticed under power the Excursion transfers a lot of weight to the rear of its self under power. If you have ever looked on YouTube of an Excursion "burn-out" it is very easy to see the torque twist during take off.

If you know someone that has an Excursion that does not sway, I would just about bet you could back yours up rear bumper to rear bumper and look at each rear supension and actually see where the problem is by looking carefully at each angel of the supension. Just measure from the rear end to the ground and from the rear to the body pan.

But the cheap fix is like I say add 2 inches on each side to the rear end by using off set wheels. It is very seldom you hear of this problem in the F-350 dualies, which by the way track wider as we all know in the rear.
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Old 12-15-2008, 09:34 PM
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Good post, UrbanXX...but I disagree with you on one point, at least for the 2000 model year. The Ford spec book for '00 said that the Excursion V-10 had virtually a 50/50 weight distribution. So with a trailer, there should be more weight on the rear axle, WD hitch or not.

That's where your plan of increasing the rear track width comes in...but have you ever seen the dually fender kits for the X? I've never worked with fiberglass up to this point, but I bet I could make a nicer fender than what's available in the aftermarket. I'm absolutely sure a dually X would make for a sweet tow rig, but there's some hacking to be done, and possibly a different rear axle to purchase, so unless your name is Rockerfeller, you'll have to pursue different avenues.

Which brings me to the Landyot radius rods...I can't argue with the praise heaped on Landyot for his rods, but I do have a problem with the design in itself. With leaf springs (and many other mass-produced rear suspension designs), the axle travels in a predetermined arc. When you add radius rods that aren't of an equal length of the radius of the arc, there's gonna be a bind in the suspension. To my way of thinking, that would give the impression that you have heavier springs than you really do. It's no secret that Excursion rear springs are notoriously weak, but rather than band-aid the situation with the radius rods, I think it'd be better to go with some genuine F-250 springs (B-code? F-code? I get alphabetic shock...) to cure the issue with spring wrap.

OK...my 2˘...flame on!
Pat
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Old 12-15-2008, 10:08 PM
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PatsPOS,
I agree with you the radius rods does by stiffing the supension actually transfer a lot of the"SUSPENSION" to the tires themself.

50/50 weight distribution is one thing setting still, and completely different at 60 MPH.

As for tongue weight it will also transfer once the truck is in FOWARD motion and of course transfer under brakeing and etc.

For example 200 pounds of tongue weight sitting still is 200 pounds.

Go down the interstate 65 MPH and if you have airlift under the rear of the truck it will lighten the tongue weight, remember you also have air lift like crazy under the trailer, and if you have air pressure build up by the trailer above the truck it just makes crazy things happen. Also sometimes air restiance is created by the trailer underneath the rear bumper of the truck which adds to the problem by not letting the air flow from underneath the truck.

Somethings just don't make sense (at least to this ole country boy) but once one gets up to speed "down-force and up-force" come into play.
Up-force defies gravity (how airplanes fly)
Down-force (the center of gravity can actually be below the road surface of the truck).
These are things I am aware of (don't know anything about) but they surely exist.

But in a nutshell the rear springs you are speaking of is a great idea and should work well to bring the truck back to its orginial design.

No arugment from me on either post.

I think most of the swaying problems is not a design flaw, but on the other hand I do think off-set rear wheels would help the problem a great deal.

Don't you remember back in the 60's PONTIAC'S WIDE TRACK DESIGN and the WIDE OVAL TIRES......
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:31 AM
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A cheaper and easier alternative (IMO) to Landyot's radius rods would be the Roadmaster Active Suspension system. I have a 2000 Ltd with the V10 and tow a Jayco 31BHS - about 9k - 10k lbs gross trailer weight and about 1200 lbs on the tongue. I have a Reese Straight Line hitch which is the one with dual cam sway control.

I have the rear Hellwig bar, Rancho RSX shocks and recently replaced the steering stabilizer with a Rancho unit and replaced the front sway bar end links with OEM parts. I run BFG All Terrains (285s). I have had no problems with sway so far and I think the RAS system plays a big part in that.

I bought mine off of ebay for a couple hundred dollars and installation took about an hour. I think more than a few people on this forum have tried the RAS system and the results have been positive overall. It requires no cutting or modification to the stock suspension, and can be removed if it doesn't work out. It might be worth a try since the risk is pretty low.

Do a search on some of the posts by X-Hemi Guy. He knows his stuff when it comes to pulling a big trailer with the X. You can also try the forums on RV.net - lots of great info there too.

Good luck.

Brian
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordquist View Post
I have tried everything I have read and can think of.
According to what you've done in your first paragraph, you've missed quite a bit then.

Check this thread out. Sit down and read for hours, it'll help you with a course of action to eliminate your steering wander.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/78...s-for-you.html

Stewart
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:08 AM
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I appreciate all the input and suggestions. I have seen many threads suggesting a spring change to 250 springs, however I cannot afford to raise my ex even a 1/4inch and still fit in the garage. I am interested in the radius rods, but wondering if the firestone bags and the rods will interfere with each other as far as instalation and clearence. New wheels and tires are out of the question if I want to stay married, I just bought these tires a few months ago. Please feel free to keep the suggestions coming, I love my ex and it only has 80,000 on it(rumor has it, they dont make them anymore).
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordquist View Post
I appreciate all the input and suggestions. I have seen many threads suggesting a spring change to 250 springs, however I cannot afford to raise my ex even a 1/4inch and still fit in the garage. I am interested in the radius rods, but wondering if the firestone bags and the rods will interfere with each other as far as instalation and clearence. New wheels and tires are out of the question if I want to stay married, I just bought these tires a few months ago. Please feel free to keep the suggestions coming, I love my ex and it only has 80,000 on it(rumor has it, they dont make them anymore).
I just put Firestone Air Bags on my X and the radius rods did intefere with the air bag install. The bags lower attachment bracket attaches to the spring and the axle with U bolts and sets on the jounce bumper pad. The axle support bracket can be mounted two ways. If it is installed opposite what the instructions indicate, it will clear the radius rods but intefere with the brake lines. So I cut off the axle U bolt bracket ears that intefered with the brake lines and welded it to the axle. Better install but welding defeats the "no weld - bolt on" approach Firestone advertises. If you go to the below web site and download the install instructions, you will see what I mean. The inside radius rod axle U bolt will not allow for proper install. After I modded the install, everything works OK.

Ford Excursion Firestone Air Bags 2000-2006 - Suspension Air Bag Helper Springs

And the rumor is true! 2005 last year.

DSMMH
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:05 PM
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