Why would Ford build anything the buyer wants?

[tseekins]

Originally Posted by Luckyr Thanthou All the unions have been able to do over the last 150 years is MAINTAIN our standard of living. You say that I fear my union will price me out of work. I realize there is only X amount of dollars to go around. What will price you and me out of work is the credit crunch and the lack of willingness of the business elite to invest. I work(ed) in the oil industry. Ever since mid July, crude oil prices havve been going down; from $147 per barrel on July 11/08 to $39 per barrel today. The major oil cos will not build the plants I used to do electrical installations in for much less than $100 per barrel. Whether I make about $55 an hour in the package or $25 an hour, those big cos will still not invest. The cost of producing a barrel of oil in CANADIAN DOLLARS is about $10 to $12 a barrel for conventional tar sands extraction; about $7 a barrel for Steam Injection. Suncor, the first co. to produce oil in the tar sands, HAD intended to build a steam injection operation, Voyageur, for $21 billion dollars. That project has been deferred until prices get back to about $100 a barrel. So the wages I would make has little to do with Suncor's investment decisions. I don't know what kind of work you do, nor do I know what you make an hour, but your employer more than likely would not make his investment decisions based on your wages. Of c ourse, he probably would have no serious objections to you or your union local volunteering to cut your standard of living, but wage cutting has NEVER produced more jobs. TEMPORARILY, wage cutting increases profits, but then the other employers would want more candy and the wage cutting would proceed merrily, even if your family doesn't mind eating beans and rice, instead of meat and potatoes. I think this economic situation is serious, but I am sure that I am not going to give up my standard of living so some employer can get raich out of my paycheck. Lucky Lucky, I like the way you think. My union has worked long and hard to get me the living wage and the bennies that I have today. We earn every bit it, our employer makes sure we do and I'm not giving back a dime without some serious concessions. Tim

[excaliber551]

Originally Posted by V10_Cougar

This is why we have a fourm labeled FORD VS. COMPETITION. Go spew your negativity there and stop wasting comments on this forum.

Easier said than done!!!!!

I've got a hot tip for you. If you don't like what I have to say don't read it.

[preppypyro]

Originally Posted by V10_Cougar

Yes, the fit and finish on this car is top notch , the bluetooth sync is pretty cool stuff

When i was in the market for an econobox, i took a few civics and focus's for test drives. The civic felt better quality from the get go, especially the interior. I found the focus interior to be very "86 ford escort" like when it came to the feel of the plastic.

Granted these cars were 04-05's and not 08's.

On Edit: just wanted to add a couple links, interesting.

http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research....r&aff=national

http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research....=&aff=national

[LxMan1]

The UAW must go. Enough said.

[FTE Ken]

Personally, I'd rather educate myself, be competitive myself and work long and hard to get myself a living wage and benefits. I'd rather succeed through my own skills, education and competitive spirit than not be able to measure up in a competitive work force. Better to compete based on my own merits than that of a socialist group. What's abundantly clear is not everyone thinks that way....

The questions I have for union members....

1. Are you capable of succeeding in a truly competitive work force?
2. Are you capable of educating yourself with the skills needed to earn a good wage through your own efforts and not those of a union?
3. What's stopping you from succeeding without a union?
4. If there was no union, what skills do you have that are valuable in the work force which would get you good wages and benefits?
5. Are you aware that the rest of America is tired of the cry me a river song we keep hearing from the unions while they continue to drive up costs?
6. Do you understand that the world market doesn't care about union pork and will continue to out-compete businesses with union work forces?
7. The UAW has spent $23 million dollars on its luxury gold course over the past 5 years. That's some benefit, isn't it? How often do you golf there?

Those of us who have the drive to compete in the work force, and succeed on our own merits along prefer not to subsidize people who killed their own golden goose.

[V10_Cougar]

Originally Posted by excaliber551

I've got a hot tip for you. If you don't like what I have to say don't read it.

Hahaha funny,

[V10_Cougar]

Originally Posted by preppypyro

When i was in the market for an econobox, i took a few civics and focus's for test drives. The civic felt better quality from the get go, especially the interior. I found the focus interior to be very "86 ford escort" like when it came to the feel of the plastic.

Granted these cars were 04-05's and not 08's.

Thanks for the input. But you are

The 08's are clearly a vast improvement.

"If you haven't looked at Ford lately" Look Again!!! Seriously.....

How about the 41 mpg Fusion Hybrid. It's sure gonna blow the doors off whatever Honda/Toyota have!!!!


That will make FORD leading in:

Hybrid Sedans
Hybrid SUV

Who needs a F'ken Bailout when we are starting to build good cars!!!!

[preppypyro]

Originally Posted by V10_Cougar

Thanks for the input. But you are

The 08's are clearly a vast improvement.

"If you haven't looked at Ford lately" Look Again!!! Seriously.....

How about the 41 mpg Fusion Hybrid. It's sure gonna blow the doors off whatever Honda/Toyota have!!!!

Your welcome for the input I guess I was just on topic as alot of others Your not new here, you know the original topic gets changed a few times over!

I hope the 08's are an improvement over the 05s too

I was "just saying"

[tseekins]

Originally Posted by FTE Ken

Personally, I'd rather educate myself, be competitive myself and work long and hard to get myself a living wage and benefits. I'd rather succeed through my own skills, education and competitive spirit than not be able to measure up in a competitive work force. Better to compete based on my own merits than that of a socialist group. What's abundantly clear is not everyone thinks that way....

The questions I have for union members....

1. Are you capable of succeeding in a truly competitive work force?
2. Are you capable of educating yourself with the skills needed to earn a good wage through your own efforts and not those of a union?
3. What's stopping you from succeeding without a union?
4. If there was no union, what skills do you have that are valuable in the work force which would get you good wages and benefits?
5. Are you aware that the rest of America is tired of the cry me a river song we keep hearing from the unions while they continue to drive up costs?
6. Do you understand that the world market doesn't care about union pork and will continue to out-compete businesses with union work forces?
7. The UAW has spent $23 million dollars on its luxury gold course over the past 5 years. That's some benefit, isn't it? How often do you golf there?

Those of us who have the drive to compete in the work force, and succeed on our own merits along prefer not to subsidize people who killed their own golden goose.

Don't you think your over generalizing a little? Perhaps even stereotyping? Your going to castigate people for trying to earn a living? Not everyone is an entrepeneur (spelling), or a business owner, independently wealthy or otherwise. The world needs factory workers, MAILMEN, mechanics, cooks, accountants, military people and people like you who left the socialist work place and has developed skills to make a living. It's not my fault that my employer is a unionized work place. I earn a great living, I work hard and I love what I do. Whats wrong with that? You and I have danced this dance before. I'm not concerned about anyones opinions about unions, I'm assuming most people here are speaking of the UAW.

If everyone had master's degrees and we all owned businesses, who would do the work? We all have different home life situations that dictate much of what we do and how we do it. My job demands between 9-11 hours of my day. The mail will run. In order for me to further my education, I would have to step away from a $25.00 per hour job (with great potential for professional growth) into an $8.00 an hour job just to find the time for school.

I'm not willing to do it. I'm happy, content, satisfied and fullfilled and I can afford to buy anyhting that Ford builds.

Tim

[preppypyro]

Originally Posted by tseekins

I'm not willing to do it. I'm happy, content, satisfied and fullfilled and I can afford to buy anyhting that Ford builds.

Tim

You do know that ford builds like a quarter million dollar (guesstimate) gt-40 right?

[tseekins]

Originally Posted by preppypyro

You do know that ford builds like a quarter million dollar (guesstimate) gt-40 right?

Yeah, I forgot about that one. I'm a truck guy anyhow. Thanks for the calibration.

Tim

[pmasley]

Yeah, I would love to have a GT-40, but that is just too damn much money for a car that you would be afraid to drive with all of the idiots on the road today.

[FTE Ken]

Originally Posted by tseekins

Don't you think your over generalizing a little? Perhaps even stereotyping?

Of course I'm generalizing, its what one does when discussing any structure (schools, corporations, governments, etc.), you can't discuss each individual.

Your going to castigate people for trying to earn a living?

Nope. What they do it their choice. My problem is with the unions.

Not everyone is an entrepeneur (spelling), or a business owner, independently wealthy or otherwise.

Agreed. But there are plenty of people who study hard in schools, get degrees, or if they don't get a degree (myself) apply themselves harder and are rewarded for it. It doesn't mean they are business owners, wealthy, etc. - it means they are driven.

The world needs factory workers, MAILMEN, mechanics, cooks, accountants, military people and people like you who left the socialist work place and has developed skills to make a living.

I didn't say the work force is socialist. The open market there is job competition is the furthest thing from socialism. In a union market where one is part of a collective group, where salaries and benefits are negiotiated not on individual merit, that's socialism. I also never said the world didn't need all sorts of workers, but if someone ends up in a job where they don't make a lot of money because they didn't apply themselves in school and get the right skills, should they really expect to be rewarded the same as someone who does apply themselves in school, gets the right skills and puts in the extra effort?

It's not my fault that my employer is a unionized work place.

You accepted the job and membership in your union is voluntary.

I earn a great living, I work hard and I love what I do. Whats wrong with that?

Nothing. Never said there was.

You and I have danced this dance before. I'm not concerned about anyones opinions about unions, I'm assuming most people here are speaking of the UAW.

I feel this way about all unions. I believe they suck the competitive spirit out of the workforce, increase prices, reduce the number of jobs available, and increase cronyism.

If everyone had master's degrees and we all owned businesses, who would do the work?

I competed in a highly technical field for many years long before I started a business and I don't have a degree. If we all made huge salaries for unskilled labor, where would prices be? Entitlement is why the country is in the mess its in.

We all have different home life situations that dictate much of what we do and how we do it.

We all make choices in life which place us in those situations.

My job demands between 9-11 hours of my day. The mail will run. In order for me to further my education, I would have to step away from a $25.00 per hour job (with great potential for professional growth) into an $8.00 an hour job just to find the time for school.

I've got a friend who works 50 hour weeks and is currently putting himself through school for his second degree. I've got a good friend of the family who put himself through law school at the age of 50 while working a full time job and is now reaping the rewards. It boils don't to one word which isn't in their vocabulary: can't.

9-11 hours, that's just a normal work week for many people. I've put in 80-100 hour weeks, sometimes for weeks at a stretch. Now, because I put in those dues early on, I can sit on my tail and not work any day I don't feel like it.... but I don't do that because that's not my makeup. Have you ever read any of Napolean Hill's books? Seriously, if you haven't they are classics on the subject. I read constantly, I love learning.

I'm not willing to do it.

We agree on something!

[Field Scout]

On the subject of unions, I am very happy with the changes the CWA has brought about in the 13 years I've been a telephone repairman. If the company had its way we would work 15 hours a day when the "needs of the business" called for it. The union put a limit to the amount of overtime the company can force us to work, yes there is overtime pay but speaking from working 10-12 hours a day 7 days a week for more than 6 months when I first hired on I don't ned that much money I want time with families. Thats just one example of what the union gat for its members. On the otherhand I will agre that there are those less than desireable employees who still have a job for no other reason than union protection and that burns me up. Overall they do have thier problems but I'd hate to see my working situation from when my dad was a phone man through my career, a lot of changes have been made for the quality of life of the workers. It's not about competeing for a better wage or benifits in my situation as it is not being taken advantage of by my employer.

[tseekins]

Originally Posted by FTE Ken

We agree on something!

That's pretty cold Ken. I'm not not willing because I'm satisfied right where I'm at, not because I'm UNMOTIVATED. I didn't make it to the top in the Coast Guard which is highly competetive by sitting on my duff. I worked hard, studied and set myself up for success in order to provide a better living for my family. When I retire in 18 years (65), I'll have four sources of retirement income. To me, that comes from hard work and proper planning.

I don't totally disagree with all that is said about unions, but I do disagree with all the negativity that is spewed about union workers.

If you choose to pick this one apart and portray me as lazy or unmotivated by throwing out a couple examples of someone who is working hard and seeking higher education then fine go for it. I'll not engage you again on this subject. Because I challenged your statement, which you clearly do not like, you made it personal.

Tim