I always find it unusual that some people blame the unions for high cost of living.
My wages as a unionised construction worker have been DECLINING for the last
thirty years or so, while the cost of living has escalated. In 1976, I worked for Bechtel
building Syncrude in the Alberta Tar sands. I cleared $525 a week working a 48 hour week, 4 10 hour days plus Friday at 8 hours. I bought a new Dodge Monaco 4 dr. sedan
for about $10,000 +. I recently was laid off a job working 10 10 hour days in two weeks, making about the same amount in real wages, ie about $3300 every two weeks.
If I was making the same amount as I had in 1976, I would have brought home over $4000 every two weeks. We lost double time for all overtime, something we had gained after WWII, our work week went from 35 hours a week to 40 hours a week; the hourly rate did not keep up with inflation. We always made more per hour than the UAW, but our work year was usually much less. The problems we are facing now have nothing to do with what workers make, but everything to do with investment generally going into real estate and municipal and other bonds, what economists call fictitious capital. Wealth is created when working people produce goods, sch as cars, houses, food and other useful commodities, not when a real estate multi-millionaire buys real estate and hopes he or she can sell that real estate inflates in value because of a housing bubble. The bubbles which were not inflated by workers burst, many of them at the same time, and those who blame the UAW or other unions for the financial crisis, are barkiing up the wrong tree. If the UAW or my union or any other unions go under, the standard of living for everybody will go straight down the tube. The market for anything will go all to H and we all will be begging in the streets. If my wages go down I certainly will not be buying a new vehicle, Big Three, Japanese, Chinese or European. I might have to resurrect my 1964 Chev for transportation. It has a 6 cyl engine, 3 on the tree, standard brakes and steering. That is if I make enough money to drive ANYTHING with an engine. In Canada, farmers hitched horses to cars without any engine. They called these vehicles Bennett Buggies, named after a Prime Minister who had not a clue as to what to do about The Great Depression of the 1930s. I hope we don't have to have another World War to get us out of what we are heading into.
Lucky
Look at the UAW. It's a LEECH. It sucks money out of the automakers to pay outrageous wages, I'm sorry but a high school kid could do most any assembly line work, and it's easier than fast food so why pay them ~$25/hr? Lets put the money where it NEEDS to be which is in the pockets of those that make your food (and keep you from getting sick) or those that work in the ANY customer service job. WE ARE the most underpaid and under appreciated people on the planet. My wifes aunt works for heinz, and part of the new contract was that the employees had to pay for part of their health insurance plan. I'm sorry, but this is normal in the REAL world. Why should your employer be required to pay out ~600 a month PER employee for YOUR health health insurance. You have an obligation to pay some of that.
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You can take the UAW out of the equation, and the big three would still have a hard time making a go of it. There would be no one that could afford to buy their product.
IMO Corporate & Political Greed started this whole mess, and will eventually run this country into the ground.
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However, all that has changed recently. Honda is offering rebates, dealers are discounting them, and Honda has cut production on all their vehicles, including the Prius.
Do you think the Honda Prius will be a collectors item???
The big 3 have had manufacturing, parts and assembly facilities in many parts of the world long before foreign companies had plants here. Current they have them in Mexico, China, India, Argentina, Brazil, New Zealand, Turkey, Germany, Britain, Portugal, Belgium, Spain, Russia, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, South Africa, Canada, Sweden, Ecuador, Colombia, Chile, Mercosur, Venezuela, Vietnam, Pakistan, Thailand, France and I'm sure I missed many more. Many of these have been operating for decades.
I've not read or heard of "any" Ford plants in japan. Maybe you could shed some light on your source! How many plants does yoda and nissan have here in the states in comparison to what our domestics have built in japan?
What is the price of a comparable Ford in japan vs the cost of a yoda here in the states?
Why do you think we have an ever-growing trade deficit here?
What's your take on the value added tax deal for foreign made products sold here in the states?
You can take the UAW out of the equation, and the big three would still have a hard time making a go of it. There would be no one that could afford to buy their product.
IMO Corporate & Political Greed started this whole mess, and will eventually run this country into the ground.
A 1-2% difference in the cost to make a car equates to billions of dollars. Its why Toyota and the Japanese have the cash reserves the Big 3 don't - because they can make more money in part due to less labor overhead.
__________________ -Ken
If you need to get in touch with me email me at ftsservice at gmail dot com or via AOL IM: motorhavenken. The best is yet to come....
I've not read or heard of "any" Ford plants in japan. Maybe you could shed some light on your source! How many plants does yoda and nissan have here in the states in comparison to what our domestics have built in japan?
Ah... so now you're parsing words. You didn't say Japan before, and since two users (NB and myself) showed you were wrong in your previous statement you choose to pick one country out of the list. Here's what the USA manufacturers have there:
Ford:
Mazda division produces 77% of the division's production in Japan.
GM:
GM Fujisawa plant (Kanagawa) Light trucks, utility vehicles, passenger car transmissions, truck engines
Owns part of Suzuki and lists is Japan facilities as part of their production.
Owns part of Isuzi and produces vehicles for joint markets in Japan.
Its much easier and less expensive to acquire an interest in a small foreign company than it is to spend billions on plants and then compete against them. The Japanese, facing larger US competitors, aren't in the same position here, though Toyota is the exception now. Considering the US is the largest market in the world and the Chinese market is #2 and growing, it would be foolish for the big 3 not to concentrate on building plants there: and they have been. The profits from these plants... without them the big 3 would have already be in bankruptcy.
Now, if you want a counted list of the number of plant in both countries, please spend your own time researching because I'm not a librarian.
Quote:
What is the price of a comparable Ford in japan vs the cost of a yoda here in the states?
Go look it up.
Quote:
Why do you think we have an ever-growing trade deficit here?
That's a very gross-over simplification.
Quote:
What's your take on the value added tax deal for foreign made products sold here in the states?
I am against pretty much all taxes except the Fair Tax, that includes import VAT.
__________________ -Ken
If you need to get in touch with me email me at ftsservice at gmail dot com or via AOL IM: motorhavenken. The best is yet to come....
What is the price of a comparable Ford in japan vs the cost of a yoda here in the states? Dunno what a Toyota costs in Japan vs the USA, but a 1975 LTD cost three times the price in Japan that it did here. This is saw with my own eyes at a Tokyo dealership when touring Japan at that time. I doubt things have changed much since.
Why do you think we have an ever-growing trade deficit here? We are spending more for imported goods, mostly from China, than we are taking in. Estimates are that China has billions of dollars in US T-Bills. What will China do when they mature?
What's your take on the value added tax deal for foreign made products sold here in the states?
There are US cars/trucks sold in Japan, but the dealerships must be Japanese owned, as foreigners are not allowed to own any dealerships in Japan.
That is not the case here.
The only thing I know about VAT is...US tourists traveling in Canada, Europe and the UK essentially do not have to pay it.
Forms are available at airports and seaports that US citizens can use to get their money back for the VAT they paid.
I dunno if that applies to vehicles, never bought one there, but it applies to darn near everything else.
You can blame the Big 3, the UAW and the US Gov't for the fact that with one exception, there are no foreign automaker plants in the US that are unionized.
They did absolutely NOTHING when these plants were being built here. NOTHING!
The simple reason why was arrogance.
No one back then figured that the Japanese would make a go of it here. They assumed that Americans would tire of their econo-boxes, then the Japanese would pack their bags and head west.
If they had raised holy hell back then, you can bet your bottom dollar that the foreign automakers assembly plants would be unionized.
__________________ Bill / Retired Ford Partsman 1962-1997 / Ford Historian / SoCal Chapter Member.
Part Number Research: Trucks: 1928/2002 / Cars: 1928/1979
1963 Galaxie 500XL / 1965 F100 Styleside Pickup ~ Original Owner / 2008 Fusion S / 2008 Edge SEL
You can blame the Big 3, the UAW and the US Gov't for the fact that with one exception, there are no foreign automaker plants in the US that are unionized.
They did absolutely NOTHING when these plants were being built here. NOTHING!
The simple reason why was arrogance.
The reason is the law. Other companies and the government cannot simply step in and say a competitor must be unionized. Its for the workers to decide and vote on. The UAW has not succeeded in organizing foreign auto assembly plants in the United States because the workers haven't wanted it.
__________________ -Ken
If you need to get in touch with me email me at ftsservice at gmail dot com or via AOL IM: motorhavenken. The best is yet to come....
The UAW in detroit is overhead the companies don't need IMO. The workers of the "Foreign" companies making vehicles in the US are well paid and have good if not great working conditions. I heard on the news the average cost per hour with benefits of a big 3 worker was almost $80 an hour and non union "Foreign" maker workers in US plants was little over over $40 a hour with benefits.......quite a gap and both have to compete with eachother.
I'm afraid if it wasn't for the Japanesse competition we would still be driving around in crap similar to some of what detroit pumped out in the 70's and 80's. Competition forces improvements and innovation.
The reason is the law. Other companies and the government cannot simply step in and say a competitor must be unionized. Its for the workers to decide and vote on. The UAW has not succeeded in organizing foreign auto assembly plants in the United States because the workers haven't wanted it.
A long time Ford VP, who I've known for over 40 years, gave me the dope inre to the arrogance of the Big 3, the UAW.
The UAW did nothing when these Japanese plants were being built...mostly south of the Mason-Dixon line.
The Big 3 did nothing either. If they had involved the US Gov't crying foul, what would the outcome be?
IMO, if these arrogant so and so's had raised hell, all the plants in the US would be unionized.
__________________ Bill / Retired Ford Partsman 1962-1997 / Ford Historian / SoCal Chapter Member.
Part Number Research: Trucks: 1928/2002 / Cars: 1928/1979
1963 Galaxie 500XL / 1965 F100 Styleside Pickup ~ Original Owner / 2008 Fusion S / 2008 Edge SEL
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